Bevel up or bevel down? Hope Rob Lee chimes in

[David Weaver]

Advancement mid-work (due to wear) is something I'd only do with a smoother, and only when the shavings are very thin. It's not a terribly important thing to me, but I guess I do it with the smoothers.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Sean

It is easy to advance or back off the blade on a BU plane "on the fly".

Ensure the Norris adjuster is clean and waxed ...



Tighten the lever cap sufficiently to hold all firmly. Now twist (and shout) ...



Regards from Perth

Derek

[Sean Hughto]

Fair enough. I don't use em, and thought loosening the lever cap would be required.

[Jim Koepke]

In the grand scheme of things, "on the fly" adjustments don't really matter for most woodworkers

Fair enough. I don't use em, and thought loosening the lever cap would be required.

Just my

two cents.jpg

and

YMMV!!!.jpg

Having started out with "on the fly" adjustment they have become second nature. Most often when removing saw marks and then readjusting for a finer cut. "Oh the backlash" others cry. Just hum a little tune and enjoy the moment.

It is easy to advance or back off the blade on a BU plane "on the fly".

Other than my block planes only one of my planes is BU. When leaving the cap loose enough to adjust, it often vibrates out of position and the blade can shift laterally. One of my block planes (from ebay) shows evidence of "on the fly" adjustment without loosening the lever cap. Maybe the newer planes are better at this. For me, the makers instructions suggest backing off the screw on the lever cap before making an adjustment.

When setting up my BU planes after sharpening the blade, the lever cap is loose and the adjusted "on the fly." The lever cap is then tightened and the work can begin.

jtk

[ian maybury]

It's worth emphasising as my post earlier in the thread (and as Derek above) just how much difference waxing the blade, adjuster and surfaces makes on a BU to the ease of adjustment. BD too. As in it goes from not practicable to easy peasy. (on the several i've set up recently anyway) Flattening and polishing the surfaces probably doesn't do any harm either...

[Jim Koepke]

It's worth emphasising as my post earlier in the thread just how much difference waxing the blade and surfaces makes ona BU to the ease of adjustment. BD too. As in it goes from not practicable to easy peasy. (on the several i've set up recently anyway) Flattening and polishing the surfaces probably doesn't do any harm either...

This is a valid point.

It may be that my main use of my LA BU Jack on the shooting board causes a bit more impact on the blade and lever cap than would be caused by surface planing.

Almost every time we enter into discussions such as this it all comes down to personal preference. From what people have said, it seems the finished surface will likely be the same whether one uses BU or BD planes to get to their goal.

My preference for old rehabbed tools in no way makes them a better choice for someone else. That is why my advice is often to try to handle as many of the choices as possible before bringing out the wallet.

It is almost like asking what will make a better life long mate, a tall blond or a short redhead.

There are too many other points one must consider. To make a decision based on one or two features leaves a lot of room for regret.

jtk

[Bruce Mack]

It's worth emphasising as my post earlier in the thread just how much difference waxing the blade and surfaces makes ona BU to the ease of adjustment. BD too. As in it goes from not practicable to easy peasy. (on the several i've set up recently anyway) Flattening and polishing the surfaces probably doesn't do any harm either...

I like to adjust without loosening the lever cap. Allows me to sneak up on a fine shaving without disturbing lateral adjustment or indeed the depth of cut (I get a coarser shaving after cap is released and relocked, probably mission creep). Wax suggestion has been invaluable for both bevel down and bevel up.

[Greg Berlin]

If it makes any difference, I sold off every bevel down Stanley plane I collected on ebay when I got into hand tools, which was quite a few. I have 4 planes, all bevel up but one: the LV smoother, jack, jointer, and one Stanley 4 1/2 that I never use (but wanted to keep). I find that the bevel up jack and smoother handle 99% of the work I do just fine. I have a 25, 38, 50 degree blade, and a toothed blade and they alterbate between planes depending on the need. They are extremely easy to set up and are comfortable to use. I really could just get by with those two planes forever most likely.

[Derek Cohen]

This follows on from the demo I did earlier with the chip breaker vs high angle BD plane.

I thought that it would be a good idea to complete the photos and provide a more complete idea of the performances of the chip breaker and high angle BU planes.

Returning to the section of reversed Fiddleback Jarrah (requiring planing into the grain), the BUS planing at 62 degrees (50 degree secondary bevel on a 12 degree bed) ..





No tear out, very good finish (what you see is the fiddleback undulations).

The BUS is a larger plane, more like a cross between the #4 and #4 1/2 in size. Closer to the #3 in use is the SBUS ...





The performance is very similar. I cannot choose between them.

Here is the Stanley #3 with the chip breaker set at about 0.25-0.3 mm ...





In my opinion this is the best finish so far. Smoother and clearer.

Here is the chip breaker set up ..



One observation is that all shavings are straight. This must be a factor of chip Type.


At this point I pulled the chip breaker back 1mm ..



... with a resulting change in shavings - back to tight curls ..



The result was significantly poor planing with small divots of tear out all over ..



I repeated the experiment on a section of interlocked medium hard Fiddleback Marri. The BUS, SBUS and #3/chip breaker performed identically ..







Of relevance, I could not see a difference in shine this time ...



So what do we make of all this?

I think that it is very clear that all the options work, and they do so with exceptional results on such difficult-to-plane interlocked timber. There was a turn-around for the chip breaker insofar as the surface left on the Jarrah was superior in my view to the two BU high angle planes. On the Marri, however, the performances of all the planes were identical.

So there you have it .... it's your choice!

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Frank Martin]

Derek, thanks for sharing this. It does indeed look like all options work great with some slight edge for the BD plane. I would assume the Stanley plane was easier to push given the lower angle. I don't think the small difference will be noticeable in my own woodworking but this gives me an excuse to try one of the new Veritas BD planes

By the way, looks like you had your BUS ground, looks nicer than stock. Did you do that yourself?

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Frank

Yes, the BUS is modified. I did this recently.





Here it is with the SBUS ...



Here's the original ..



Whatdoyouthink?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[John Coloccia]

Hi Frank

Yes, the BUS is modified. I did this recently.





Here it is with the SBUS ...



Here's the original ..



Whatdoyouthink?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Is it square to the sole? That was a major pet peeve of mine with that plane. I'm a user, not a collector, and as much as I like that plane, if I can't put it on it's side to shoot, it simply can't take up room in my shop. I thought that was an extremely odd choice for LV.

[Frank Martin]

Hi Frank

Yes, the BUS is modified. I did this recently.





Here it is with the SBUS ...



Here's the original ..



Whatdoyouthink?

Regards from Perth

Derek

I think it looks a lot nicer than the original and also more functional if sides are square to the sole as John says. How did you do it?

[Derek Cohen]

Hi John

The sides are perfectly square, but that is not going to help you at all in this case.

First of all, this plane is a dedicated smoother, and the blade you keep in it is not going to have a low bevel angle. That is one strike against it.

Secondly, the plane is coffin shaped, so it will not ride flat on its side anyway.

Get the LA Smoother instead, with a second blade, if you want a plane to double on a shooting board. The modification to the BUS was simply for improved aesthetics, although the handle change was needed as my bench is low and a straighter handle causes the wrist to cock/bend more than is comfortable.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[John Coloccia]

Hi John

The sides are perfectly square, but that is not going to help you at all in this case.

First of all, this plane is a dedicated smoother, and the blade you keep in it is not going to have a low bevel angle. That is one strike against it.

Secondly, the plane is coffin shaped, so it will not ride flat on its side anyway.

Get the LA Smoother instead, with a second blade, if you want a plane to double on a shooting board. The modification to the BUS was simply for improved aesthetics, although the handle change was needed as my bench is low and a straighter handle causes the wrist to cock/bend more than is comfortable.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I guess I was asking if you'd flattened it out. I usually use a LN #5 or #6 (forget which) for shooting, but it would be convenient to have a short plane too.