How many professional woodworkers using no power tools? ....

[John Coloccia]

A one-time piece for a contest or what not (commissioned piece) is fine with using hand tools only; to do it for a living, there aren't many of them in today's world. All well-known furniture makers who are also contributors in FWM use power tools in their day job. Of course, Chris Schwarz -- a relentless promoter of the use of hand tools -- himself uses his tablesaw, cordless drill etc. freely...and so did Tage Frid, George Nakashima, Sam Maloof and James Krenov.

Simon

If you listen to Sam talk, he basically considers the chair "done" once the rough shapes are cut, the joinery is cut, and the chair is in one piece. That's basically all machine work. Then one of his "boys" does some finish shaping with rasps, grinders, sanders, etc. It's funny to hear him talk. He doesn't strike me as someone who puts any particular value on hand tool use. I'm pretty sure that if he could have found a way to do the whole thing on a bandsaw, he'd have just done the whole thing on a bandsaw.

[Mike Henderson]

If you listen to Sam talk, he basically considers the chair "done" once the rough shapes are cut, the joinery is cut, and the chair is in one piece. That's basically all machine work. Then one of his "boys" does some finish shaping with rasps, grinders, sanders, etc. It's funny to hear him talk. He doesn't strike me as someone who puts any particular value on hand tool use. I'm pretty sure that if he could have found a way to do the whole thing on a bandsaw, he'd have just done the whole thing on a bandsaw.

Amen. I visited with Sam Maloof several times and he was absolutely not a hand tool worker. John's right - if he could have done everything on the bandsaw, he would have.

Sam was a pragmatic woodworker.

Personally, I view people who do all hand work as idealistic woodworkers, or woodworkers who just enjoy the process of hand tool work. But if you're trying to make money, it's hard to replace a good wide jointer and planer for preparing stock.

Mike

[Warren Mickley]

When you look at 18th century work, we don't seem to be able to match their speed, machine tools or not. It is hard to believe how much work they put out. Here is an example:

The single iron smoothing plane in the Seaton chest was bought from Gabriel in 1796 for 2s 1d. For a craftsman in that day that represented 10% of a weeks pay, maybe 6 or 7 hours work. (The double iron smoother cost 2s6d). That money not only paid the craftsmen who made the plane and the iron, it helped make Christopher Gabriel a wealthy man. A few years ago we could buy a smoothing plane from Old Street Tool for $350. How much did all the efficiency of an electric grinder, end mills, planer, saws, etc. help? The median wage for a cabinetmaker in Arkansas is 15.25 an hour; today it would take one of them 23 hours to buy the plane.

Somebody mentioned windows. A woodworker I know told me about making windows for an 18th century house. He made this jig and that jig "in no time at all". And set up a bunch of machines "in a snap". When I asked the price it was just about double what I charged for doing that work by hand. I bet Zach could undercut him also.

For someone who is used to doing machine work, handwork is slow. If you do it all the time, you get good at it.

[Keith Mathewson]

Keith,most small "working" artists have a spouse's income to fall back onto.

Then you would be an artist and not really earning a livelihood. This is something that I have told a lot of furniture makers or would be furniture makers I run into. If you enjoy your hobby and you're good at it that's one thing but it's very different to try and earn a livelihood at it.

[george wilson]

My wife,with some help from me,has been making jewelry for about 20 years now. She has never made as much money as she made as an apprentice in the Book Binding Shop in the museum,where we met. And,she has worked twice as many hours to make that!! It is very hard having your own business,for most people,especially if you are making stuff.

But,she wanted a creative job,and to be her own boss.

[Steve Voigt]

When you look at 18th century work, we don't seem to be able to match their speed, machine tools or not. It is hard to believe how much work they put out. Here is an example:

…

For someone who is used to doing machine work, handwork is slow. If you do it all the time, you get good at it.

While there is no doubt that power can save a ton of time in many situations, I agree with Warren's main point. The equation hand tools = slow is often just a product of people not having mastery.
Here is another example, via the Logan cabinet shop blog. Bob relates that the table is estimated to have taken 9 hours to complete. I think if you posted that pic in the power tools section and asked for someone to make the table in a day, you wouldn't get a lot of takers.

[Jim Matthews]

I would expand the question, slightly.

How many woodworkers can make a living, building furniture alone?
It seems to me that nearly all the reference materials we cite
are written by talented furniture makers that choose to teach and write
to supplement their shop earnings.

I suspect it's a rare maker that can just sell his furniture to eager clients and make a living.

[John Coloccia]

While there is no doubt that power can save a ton of time in many situations, I agree with Warren's main point. The equation hand tools = slow is often just a product of people not having mastery.
Here is another example, via the Logan cabinet shop blog. Bob relates that the table is estimated to have taken 9 hours to complete. I think if you posted that pic in the power tools section and asked for someone to make the table in a day, you wouldn't get a lot of takers.

I wonder if that includes all the work the apprentices do?

[Steve Voigt]

I wonder if that includes all the work the apprentices do?

I'm not sure…it was a very small family shop. I'm sure it's in the Charles Hummel book. I should get that back from the local library…I'm literally the only person who ever checks it out.

[george wilson]

Apprentices did a significant amount of the grunt work. We can't accurately say that 18th. C. workmen were faster. Often apprentices were not paid. They were kept.

In Holland in the 17th. C.,an apprentice harpsichord maker was paid nothing,unless the master gave him a few coins here and there. He lived with the master and his family. When he was at the end of his apprenticeship,he had to make a harpsichord that was judged to be good by the guild. He was then accepted into the guild. The master got to keep the harpsichord in return for the room and board of the apprentice. I am not sure HOW a former apprentice managed to get money together to open his own shop. Probably he worked as a journeyman. Possibly he could eventually open his own shop,or perhaps never.

[Simon MacGowen]

It is a fantasy to believe that the woodworkers in the 18th c. or hand tool only woodworkers today can compete with power tools, except when we are talking about very unique situations where power tools have not been created to handle them. Hands down, no one can dress 100 board feet of pranks faster than a jointer and thickness planer. That kind of grunt work is NOT what a skilled woodworker is trained for in the first place!

When it comes to mass production, no hand tool users, no matter how efficient or skilled they are, can come close to the productivity of using power tools. If my school's cabinet builder used only hand tools (assuming he could find the woodworker) to build all the cabinets in the school, the school would have no money left to hire the shop assistants.

Rob Cosman can cut a dovetail joint fast, really fast, I would say. Now he would tell you he can't make one hundred dovetail joined boxes as fast as someone who has a dovetail jig and a router. Nonsense if he says otherwise.

Paul Sellers sometimes likes to say that it is faster to do this or that than setting up the machine, but he admits he uses the jointer to the grunt work. He will tell you that it is faster to do something in some context, not as a general statement.

Ikea would have hired all the world's woodworkers and given them hand tools instead of making their products in China...as cheap as labor there is, using machinery of all sorts in the production.

Let's love hand tools, traditional woodworking techniques and enjoy them, but with our feet on the ground, not trying to send out the incorrect message that hand tool workers are faster.

Simon

[Warren Mickley]

I wonder if that includes all the work the apprentices do?

That particular table cost 3 pounds, 12 shillings in April 1796. Part of the cost was the mahogany and the tilt top mechanism with brass latch. I doubt it was made in 9 hours. At that time the Dominys valued their labor at 4s 6d a day.

A tea table without the tilt top was about 1L 14 s or 1L 4s. A mahogany stand (small diameter table) was 16 shillings and a cherry stand was 10 shillings, maybe 2 days labor.

In the 18th century furniture was usually priced according to the time it took a journeyman to complete the work on his own.

[John Coloccia]

That particular table cost 3 pounds, 12 shillings in April 1796. Part of the cost was the mahogany and the tilt top mechanism with brass latch. I doubt it was made in 9 hours. At that time they valued their labor at 4s 6d a day.

A tea table without the tilt top was about 1L 14 s or 1L 4s. A mahogany stand (small diameter table) was 16 shillings and a cherry stand was 10 shillings, maybe 2 days labor.

In the 18th century furniture was usually priced according to the time it took a journeyman to complete the work on his own.

I'm sorry for my ignorance. Can you explain what all the denominations are? Honestly, I don't know shillings from Shinola!

[Sean Hughto]

Two words: John Henry

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o3Hdobado20

[Warren Mickley]

1 shilling is 12 pence (1s=12d)
20 shillings is 1 pound (20s= 1L)

The table pictured cost 3 pound and 12 shillings or 72 shillings. A days wages was 4 1/2 shillings. Mahogany furniture was quite a bit more expensive than walnut or cherry.