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Thread: Making my own oak flooring...is this a horrible idea?

  1. #31
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    Feb 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Sheridan View Post
    It's such a dumb idea that I'm in the middle of doing just that.

    First I built a bandsaw mill, then dried the lumber outside, now it's been the shop for a year and ia planed and jointed.

    Next is straight line rip, rip and a couple trips through the shaper.

    Using the stock feeder on the jointer was a real muscle and time saver.............Rod.

    And are you having fun yet?

  2. #32
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    You are building a lake house with 4,000sf of hardwood flooring and you need an excuse to buy a J/P?! Would it be even 0.1% of the house price?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Quinn View Post
    And are you having fun yet?
    Yes and no.

    I am doing it for sentimental reasons, the wood is local to my house, ash that was hit by the Emerald Ash Borer.

    I would never do this to save money, too much work, and I'm only making 10% of the floor area the OP is.

    Regards, Rod.

  4. #34
    I'm almost tempted to encourage Darrin to go ahead, just so I can entertain myself reading through his "progress" reports for the next 10 years...or until he slits his wrists.

    Personally, I wouldn't even install 4000 square feet of flooring myself, never mind making it from trees.
    Last edited by John Coloccia; 10-05-2014 at 9:57 AM.

  5. #35
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    Resistance is futile......... I waited 30 minutes before posting.

    Darrin you have gotten a lot of sound advice for either direction you may chose, but there seems to be a few topics no one has touched. IMO the amount of lumber to be harvested will not be enough to cover 4,000 sqft due to waste, especially if you quarter saw it.

    I'll share a bit of my experience... As many have said this is tedious boring work that is no fun. Actually I found it to be quite rewarding, fun not so much. The level of right equipment for home hobbyist is astronomically out of balance from cost/benefit standpoint unless you plan on project farther down the road. This was my case and I knew this going in, I just didn't realize the full scope of the NEEDED tooling. I bought a used 6" jointer with the normal 42" infeed/outfeed, a small 1.5hp shaper, 1.75hp table saw, an old delta 4 post planer, a Rockler hang on the wall D/C, and a 12" compound miter saw, thinking I had it nailed.

    I kept the table saw. Underpowered as it was I found that a 20-24 tooth rip blade 1/8 kerf to work better that the Ripline thin kerf. Most of my stock was better than 4/4. IRC that blade is recommended up to 4/4 but my saw just couldn't keep up at a decent pace.

    Next problem was... actually the first was D/C way to small of a bag and not enough CFM. I went with a 2hp 1550 CFM. It work OK but left a lot of fines floating around. Oh and I stopped counting the number of time I emptied out the chips after 20 bags. Knew it was going to be a lot but not to this level.

    The 6" jointer was the next hurdle. Not enough in and out feed to properly register against. I tried roller stands etc ... nothing worked really well. Without the stands on the outfeed side I almost tipped the machine over. Solution was an 8" with 75" tables. Even that was a challenge till I added a feeder and roller stand on the outfeed side. All of my stock was reclaimed lumber so a hard brushing of every board was required to not dull the knives prematurely. Even that was not enough so replace the 4 knife setup with spiral cutter head.

    Which brings me to the next pain, the Delta planer. As with the jointer the straight knives dulled to quickly. The planer was the type that had the motor hanging over the cutter head. I suppose after many blade changes you could get proficient at changing and setting but I found it to be way to cumbersome especial with my vision. I'm not even going to get into the whole learning curve of sharpening the blades on a Tormac. I replace it with a 20 Grizzly model that already had been convert to a Byrd head.

    On the advice of good folks here on the forum I knew I needed a feeder for my shaper. 1hp was recommended because of the weight needed for preload and traction for continuous feeding. Here again I bought to small. The extra weight of the feeder unless it was kept over center would tip the machine. The work around would have been sand bags or lead shot in the bottom of the machine. I would also need to make an adapter to mount the feeder because the foot print of the shaper exceeded the available space. Instead I found a 3hp with a feeder already mounted, not a 1 hp but it worked with a little help from waxing the top and constant finger pressure. I still need to replace it.

    If you want relief cuts on the back you will need a molder or tooling for the shaper. Tooling for the shaper IMO would be a pain, so I already had an old Woodmaster 612 I just tooled up for that. Do you need relief cuts? Jury is still out on that IMO. Search the forum there has been a few discussion on the need and why.

    After your wood is milled you will most likely want to sticker it and wait a few month 4-6 before you take it to the kiln. From what I understand most kiln operators prefer air drying to certain MC before they do their magic. Like I said mine wood was reclaimed some of it had been around 10 -20 years some 3-5 in any event I went to the kiln for purpose of disinfection. If for no other reason I would kiln everything you intend for flooring. Once dried you will need to sticker it someplace to acclimate.

    Shop space........ How much do you have? Processing this wood and storing between steps is going to be a problem. Enough said about all that.

    I have attached a few photos from my experience. If you decide to do this I found the use of feeders manditory on everything including the T/S. Way to much linear feet to be pushing.

    Good luck keep us in the loop.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #36
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    For the sake of contrast as part of a 4 man team running a molder and straight line saw in a proper millwork setting I could mill 4000SF of flooring in less than one day. So as a back up plan you may consider getting the material made by others, for instance find a lumber mill that makes flooring, or had a relationship with a flooring manufacturer. Trees leave your property on a lumber truck....come back on a flat bed ready to install.

    When my grandmother passed my uncle bought the old Victorian we had all enjoyed for so many years. It had been cut up into a multi family rental income property, my uncle determined to put it hole and occupy it. It needed a lot of flooring replaced, and a giant beech tree that was eating the driveway and porch needed removal. Thousands of BF of lumber potential. So he contacted a mill to get quotes for flooring. $6.75/sf if they made it with his sentimental tree. That price shocked his lumber liquidator sensibilities....after all he was supplying the wood! So he asked for a quote if they supplied the wood....$6.25/sf! I'm pretty sure the tree went to a firewood company, and that he paid for its removal. He was complaining at a family even about the nerve of these people, I had to let him know how wrong he was. Milling residential trees is real liability, lots of ferrous material works it's wAy in there over years, tends not to be the straightest stuff on earth, branches out too early. And the raw lumber is a commodity of marginal value except to the person in whose yard it may be growing. Or if it's a giant old growth walnut.

    I'm a conservationist but not particularly sentimental, I love the idea of using this material for something other than heat. But what and how makes the most sense for you?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Quinn View Post
    For the sake of contrast as part of a 4 man team running a molder and straight line saw in a proper millwork setting I could mill 4000SF of flooring in less than one day. So as a back up plan you may consider getting the material made by others, for instance find a lumber mill that makes flooring, or had a relationship with a flooring manufacturer. Trees leave your property on a lumber truck....come back on a flat bed ready to install.

    When my grandmother passed my uncle bought the old Victorian we had all enjoyed for so many years. It had been cut up into a multi family rental income property, my uncle determined to put it hole and occupy it. It needed a lot of flooring replaced, and a giant beech tree that was eating the driveway and porch needed removal. Thousands of BF of lumber potential. So he contacted a mill to get quotes for flooring. $6.75/sf if they made it with his sentimental tree. That price shocked his lumber liquidator sensibilities....after all he was supplying the wood! So he asked for a quote if they supplied the wood....$6.25/sf! I'm pretty sure the tree went to a firewood company, and that he paid for its removal. He was complaining at a family even about the nerve of these people, I had to let him know how wrong he was. Milling residential trees is real liability, lots of ferrous material works it's wAy in there over years, tends not to be the straightest stuff on earth, branches out too early. And the raw lumber is a commodity of marginal value except to the person in whose yard it may be growing. Or if it's a giant old growth walnut.

    I'm a conservationist but not particularly sentimental, I love the idea of using this material for something other than heat. But what and how makes the most sense for you?
    Totally agree with everything you have said. You and many others tried to talk me off the edge, but I jumped anyway. I'm only half way done still have the other 1/2 the house to do and I will need more lumber not much but all the same having to go back and duplicate the exact widths will be hard but not impossible.

    Would I do this again..... no!

  8. #38
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    Mar 2003
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    Monroe, MI
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    I just bought about 150 sqft of oak flooring a couple months ago and had to unload it from my truck into the garage, then later move it from the garage to the living room. That stuff was heavy! Can't magine moving 30-40x that for several operations.

    Any local flooring makers that could work with the sawyer turn your trees into flooring?

    And are you sure you've got enough good lumber to make what you need?


  9. #39
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    Oct 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin Johnson View Post
    All,

    We have a lake cabin we are planning on tearing down and rebuilding. As much as I'd like to do much of this myself, I won't be able to due to work demands.

    The property has 6 very large red oak trees (30-40 inch diameter, mostly red but a couple white) that will have to come down. I just hate the idea of cutting them down and either turning them into firewood or them ending up in a landfill.

    I've found a portable sawmill guy that will saw them up...he can do QS lumber which is my preference. No luck finding a kiln. I need rough;y 4000 sq foot of flooring.

    Is it crazy to have these trees turned into lumber, air dry, then dry for 3-4 month inside (dehumidifier) and then convert into tongue and groove lumber? It gives me an excuse to buy a 12 inch j/p combo I've been wanting for years and a sawstop. Would need something to T and G them also.

    Understand: This isn't a money saving project and I realize that. It's a sentimental way to contribute to what will hopefully be a lake getaway for our family for years to come.

    Appreciate any advice.
    Hi Darrin. I have a little bit of subject matter expertise in this area....

    First, I think that the concept of having flooring in your home that came from trees that grew on the land is a great and rewarding concept, and encourage you to pursue it, especially as quartersawn lumber.

    However, doing it yourself with hobbiest grade of tools may turn out to be a nightmare. Here is what I would suggest.

    First, make sure that your miller understands that QS lumber shrinks more in thickness than flat sawn lumber. For a standard 3/4" finished floor, he needs to mill the boards to be at least 1-1/8" thick green (and on boards wider than 8" I would encourage him to mill them at 1-1/4" green to allow for drying related distortions).

    Second, QS lumber tends to crook towards the bark if any sapwood is present in the boards. Thus it is best if he ensures that he edges all of the sapwood off of the boards, else you will have some nice banana boards.

    Third, in the south oak is very susceptible to infestation from powderpost beetles, and the best way to address this is with a heat sterilization cycle in a kiln. Your other option is to use a borate type solution on every board (applied green, use a product such as Timbor), but it's actually cheaper per bd.ft to kiln dry versus using the borate.

    Fourth, if a miller is good, you will only lose 25% from gross dry board footage to finished flooring. QS can be tricky though, because for flooring you want consistent width blanks and when you QS a log you end up with inconsistent width blanks. Plan on at least 35% waste (thus for 4K sq ft of finished product you had better have at least 6K bd ft of dry lumber). If your miller is not that good, you had better plan on 50% waste due to thin boards.

    Fifth, there is a flooring mill north of Atlanta that does a lot of volume and has extremely low prices. If I were you, I would speak with them about kiln drying your lumber and processing it into flooring for you. I would treat your logs with a quality end sealer, such as Anchor Seal Classic, and then paint a unique paint color on all of your log ends so that the milled boards all have the same color ends. That will make it easy for them to keep your lumber separate as they are drying and processing it into flooring.

    If you still want to do this yourself I'll fill you in on the steps.

    Scott

  10. #40
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    Apr 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Nelson1 View Post
    [snip]
    I have attached a few photos from my experience. If you decide to do this I found the use of feeders manditory on everything including the T/S. Way to much linear feet to be pushing.

    Good luck keep us in the loop.
    David, very impressive story and pics!

  11. #41
    Everyone:

    Incredibly helpful (and no doubt realistic posts). At this point, leaning towards getting it milled and will save for future projects. Maybe I'll do my Den/Loft floor etc all with it and use the rest for...who knows.

    Have struggled finding a local kiln.

    Great discussion and lots of wisdom here!

  12. #42
    I love the full blown absurdity and awesomeness of this idea. This thread wins.

  13. #43
    Yes.

    The general advice here is to make some heirloom furniture and buy your flooring - and that sounds good to me. I made my own hickory stair treads, and by #2 the exponential decay in fun per tread had set in.

    However.. you might get the best of both worlds (do crazy stuff and don't suffer for it) if you consider oak fungiable. Find a regional mill turning out flooring, get them to recommend some one to harvest and deliver the trees to them (but keep some pieces for furniture making), buy finished flooring from them. Oak is oak - and your trees go to the mill the floor comes from, but you get a volume produced, high quality, product at a reasonable net cost and without waiting out the drying period or the risk of doing it yourself.

  14. #44
    Check out the MS market bulletin you can look at it online, there are a few guys in there that saw/kiln/mill may be one fairly close to you. Another thing I have heard about locally is to check with the local small sawmills about sawing and drying your lumber. I'm in SW MS and there are probably 10 small hardwood mills within 30 miles and I have heard a few of them will saw and kiln for someone. I know 20 yrs ago my grandfather had his property logged (pine not hardwood) by a small mill and got back enough of the lumber to build his house.

  15. #45
    In place of tung and groove, to save time and wood etc… I route grooves on both edges and insert the floating spline.

    Ok, the keys were mostly for the sake of decoration.


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