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Boat and surfboard building requires measuring the initial forms, then the rest is fitting a piece, then marking it, cutting to the mark, fitting it again, and fine tuning. Ultimately you take what you end up with and plane it until it looks symmetrical.
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Last edited by Malcolm Schweizer; 10-03-2014 at 11:41 AM. Reason: Trying to fix the picture rotation but can't get it to work!
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I can relate to this. I was a machinist in my 20s and though it's been 15 years since I worked in a shop, thinking in thousandths is hard-wired into my brain.Originally Posted by Brian Hale
I don't think it's something you want to eliminate. It's more a matter of figuring out when precise measurements are not the most efficient way to do something. You might want to try just adding a few direct tranfers (as others have suggested) to your next project, without going whole hog and throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
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I generally like to have one large dimension on a project, and if other large dimensions can't just be eyeballed, then something general for those.
Once I start the first piece, though, I ditch any plans for measurements and fit everything I can by marking a stick or marking the next piece to what's already there.
Its obvious on the plane thread that some moderately elaborate layout goes on for visual cues, but I don't necessarily end up where the marks were laid out on a plane (this has been true for both metal and wood planes), just somewhere close.
Steve, the guy who taught me to work wood is a mechanical engineer with some machinist tendencies. I learned early on he was going to be doing everything to the thousandth. The last project we did had plans already, but he worked them out in autocad and created another set with numbers to the thousandths in it.
I am FAR too lazy to work like that. He considers it safe, measure everything exact and then you don't have to test fit much along the way, you can just process your pieces and assemble them. I consider it difficult!
Contributor
A story stick is kind of like measuring I guess.
Some of my biggest failures were from trying to make everything to an exact size. Making things fit without exact measurement seems to work better for my work.
Though for some things measuring or adjusting a size helps to save wood. For my first potting bench the slats were cut to 20". Lately they have been downsized to 19". The difference is getting five slats per 1X4X8" piece instead of four and a 16" piece of scrap.
For me the measuring is done to avoid scrap pieces and getting things to fit. Other than that one piece is often marked from another.
I am another one of those with slight dyslexia causing me to mark on the wrong side of the inch or half inch mark on a ruler.
I have also found my work to improve by just using a four fold ruler instead of a tape measure.
I think super precision is for metal work and power tools. Wood seems to work better, at least in my shop, when trimmed to fit.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Member
Story sticks and full scale drawings are all the measuring I do.
Each piece fits to the last,
I never cut things too short
when marked from where they must fit.
Member
Yeah, that's pretty over the top. It wasn't clear in my post, but I don't think like that any more. The calipers are usually on the bench, but they are mostly for things like measuring tenon thickness. Otherwise, I do a mix of measuring and just cutting/planing to fit. I don't make detailed plans either--a quick sketch is usually enough, with lots of dimensions undetermined. Mostly because I'm too impatient!
Contributor
Count me in as a referance builder.
Contributor
Rarely have a plan of any sort, other than what my Single Brain Cell Sketch-up can conjure up. Case in point
Tool chest#2.jpg
Since both of these were from salvaged lumber, I just went with what I had. Once the basic box was cobbled up, I could then fit all sorts of goodies inside
tool chest #2 opened.jpg
Usually just hold the next piece in it's new location, and mark what doesn't fit.
Member
What I do is draw up a design of mine on a CAD program, take it to the shop, find suitable material (usually from my scrap bin) as close as possible, then make it to suit the material size. Rarely do the finished dimensions end up like the drawing but it does the job.
If I have to purchase material for the job, then I follow the drawing fairly closely. If it is a paid job (which I don't do any more) I make it to the customer's drawing.
Of course, I'm retired and most things I make are for my own use. Who cares if they don't turn out exactly to the drawing ??? I'm having fun.
Member
That tool chest really shaped up well.
Nicely done.
What happened to all the shavings?
Tornado come through?
Contributor
Igor was riding a broom....
Member
That's pronounce "Eye-gor".
Member
Believe it or not,I had to replace all the quarter round moldings around the baseboards in this house. Soon,I found I was able to accurately cut the pieces by eye that went around in the closets. I'd make them about 1/8" too long by eye,then trim them by eye only,for snug fits.
Contributor
It starts with an idea ... however what one visualises does not always work out as imagined. Most of my planning stays in my head, and what I commit to a sheet of 1/8" MDF is the plan ... essentially a storyboard. Discovering the proportions that work sometimes happens as one goes along, but for the more complex designs they need to be integrated before you commit to cutting anything.
I have just begun on a lingerie chest for my wife. This is going to have flat tapered sides and convex drawers (dovetailing complex angles is going to be interesting). The chest needs to be at a height that enables Lynndy to see into the top drawer. So this is established as 54". The width at the base is largely determined by the alcove into which it will go: Lynndy wants it as wide as possible, and I want it to be as wide as is aesthetic (she has little concern for the latter - she just wants a chest of drawers!).
It is the angle of the tapered sides that need to be determined. I am also not so sure about the width she decrees (hell, she'd never know if I make it an 1" narrower!).
So this is where the eye balling comes in.
I made up a model with lengths of MDF ...
They are screwed together at each end (to reduce the use of clamps), and the section in the centre is numbered in inches ...
So this is what it looks like in the bedroom alcove (those pictures will be going). This is 18" wide at the top ...
... and 22" at the top ...
We settled on 20" ...
Of course I may just bring it in by 1" at each side.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Member
Agree with everyone's responses. My projects seem to turn out much better the less measurements I use to make the project. Once I got it out my head that everything had to "machined" to exact specs and I started utilizing hand tools more and more in my shop, I started to realize things started to go smoother and better. I usually start with the general idea and general dimensions of what I want to be, and then I just go from from usually changing and fitting as I go. Much better! I have to think too hard when I have "24 3/16" - 12 3/8" = " and so on. The less measuring and math I do and the more direct marking and fitting, the better it is.
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