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Thread: Longevity of shellac in a closed jar

  1. #1
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    Longevity of shellac in a closed jar

    I finished a project with a 2 lb cut of dewaxed shellac in December of 2012. I had close to 1/2 of a pint unused and put it in a sealed jar. I put it in the back of a shelf and it's been there since. Other than the amber natural color, it's clear and there is no sediment that I can see. Would you think it's OK to use on another small project? I have more shellac flakes, but why waste them if it's not necessary. Thanks for any input and considerations. Don M
    Real American Heros don't wear Capes, they wear Dogtags.

  2. #2
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    Probably, but it would be easy to do a test piece to be sure.
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  3. #3
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    Thanks for answering. Good idea. Finishing isn't my strong point. This is on a walnut gunstock, so I don't have a test piece. Would any other type of hardwood do as a test piece? Final step, of course, would be to put a General Finishes poly over the Shellac. My thought is General Finishes High Performance Poly with it's extra UV protection would work. I've never used that before but have used their wipe on Oil and Urethane and it worked well. Also, I know Flexner in his book doesn't recommend old Shellac under a varnish unless the Shellac is thoroughly dry. I was going to leave the Shellac go for a couple weeks before applying the poly. To test: I assume then you would apply a couple coats of Shellac to a piece of hardwood, wait a couple days then put some poly on it and see what the results are?

    Side question. Could I use the "wipe on" technique for the "High Performance" top coat poly? Thanks again for your help to my questions. And I contribute to the Creek.

    Don M
    Last edited by Don Morris; 10-05-2014 at 3:32 AM.
    Real American Heros don't wear Capes, they wear Dogtags.

  4. #4
    I wiped it on before I knew enough to know how little I actually knew, and it turned out... pretty damn good! I even used steel wool between every coat and no rust spots anywhere. The gods of finishing where smiling on me that day. Though I don't recommend following that finishing schedule.

    The worst part is I didnt know how bad its chemical resistance was and the top got a big, dark ugly ring in it not too long after it was finished.

  5. #5
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    Shellac is funny stuff.
    I've had fresh shellac refuse to dry & I've had shellac manufactured in 1949 dry perfectly fine when applied in 1972.

    Test the dry on a non-porous surface such as glass of glazed tile - that way you're sure it's all "standing out" and not just soaking in.

    Personally - on a gun stock - I'd skip the poly and put on wax instead.
    Shellac is a surprisingly durable finish on gun stocks all by itself.
    The Soviets finished all the stocks of their AK's with a red stain and shellac.
    My granddad always said, :As one door closes, another opens".
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Engelhardt View Post
    The Soviets finished all the stocks of their AK's with a red stain and shellac.
    Now that is interesting.

  7. #7
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    As noted - test it out to be sure it cures.

    OTOH - what does a can of Zinnser Seal-coat cost? That is 2# dewaxed. Pretty cheap way to be sure you do not have problems.
    When I started woodworking, I didn't know squat. I have progressed in 30 years - now I do know squat.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Engelhardt View Post
    Shellac is funny stuff.
    I've had fresh shellac refuse to dry & I've had shellac manufactured in 1949 dry perfectly fine when applied in 1972.

    Test the dry on a non-porous surface such as glass of glazed tile - that way you're sure it's all "standing out" and not just soaking in.

    Personally - on a gun stock - I'd skip the poly and put on wax instead.
    Shellac is a surprisingly durable finish on gun stocks all by itself.
    The Soviets finished all the stocks of their AK's with a red stain and shellac.
    It was certainly not dewaxed, though. Shellac with the wax still in it makes a wonderfully durable finish EXCEPT it's doesn't have great resistance to moisture. So you if you leave your coffee cup on a table, you'll eventually end up with a water ring. Oh pooh! I'll bet that most people would be surprised at just how tough a finish of button lac can be, especially if they've never tried it

  9. #9
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    I've got a can of Watco Satin Wax. On a gunstock, would you think that would be a close second to the Zinsser?
    Real American Heros don't wear Capes, they wear Dogtags.

  10. #10
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    why do you want to put the shellac on a gunstock for. if it is going to just hang on a wall it is fine( guess you cannot just hang them on a wall anymore). if it is to be used, it may not like the conditions that it may face in the outdoors
    ron

  11. #11
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    if it is to be used, it may not like the conditions that it may face in the outdoors
    Did you miss the part above where I mentioned the Soviets used shellac on all their AK's?
    Since the AK47 has been used in every conceivable condition on Earth, I suppose a lot of those times the shellac actually did see service in adverse conditions.
    Shellac is far from a finish that needs to be pampered.
    My granddad always said, :As one door closes, another opens".
    Wonderful man, terrible cabinet maker...

  12. #12
    Shellac is more durable than people think - but there's a distinction to be made between shellac's aesthetic durability and functional durability. It does not gum up or fail or dissolve so easily in the presence of water or humidity. However, it can become cloudy and scratches very easily. On a pretty, glossy table top, that water ring from a leaky plant pot may be problematic. But on a rifle handle that gets more uniformly and thoroughly abraded, rubbed down and patina'd through use, this may not be an issue.

    I used shellac on my first workbench. It looked great the first day, bad after a year, and finally (7 years out) looks comfortably-well-worn; it's not been re-coated ever.

    Also, to the OP's original post, the only way to know whether your shellac is still usable is to test it on a sample. If it dries hard and sands well after a reasonable time (a day) it's usable. Shellac does not cure. It can be re-dissolved many times with ethanol. I don't know for sure, but my theory (here's where trusting Internet-gained info is dangerous, so caveat emptor) is that the ethanol in shellac absorbs enough water such that the shellac will no longer dry reasonably quickly. It will dry gummy because of trapped water - not because the shellac itself is bad. There are ways to absorb the water out of there, and I've been meaning to test this with sodium sulfate. Unfortunately, I don't have any 'bad shellac' to test.
    Last edited by Prashun Patel; 10-06-2014 at 8:46 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Engelhardt View Post
    Did you miss the part above where I mentioned the Soviets used shellac on all their AK's?
    Since the AK47 has been used in every conceivable condition on Earth, I suppose a lot of those times the shellac actually did see service in adverse conditions.
    Shellac is far from a finish that needs to be pampered.
    I didn't miss the part where you mentioned it. So I take it that whatever you say we are to take a gospel.
    here is what is said about the Kalashnikov;
    The AK-47 and its variants are made in dozens of countries, with "quality ranging from finely engineered weapons to pieces of questionable workmanship." [68] As a result, the AK-47 has a service/system life of approximately 6,000,[69] to 10,000,[70] to 15,000[71] rounds.[72] The AK-47 was designed to be a cheap, simple, easy to manufacture assault rifle,[73] perfectly matching Soviet military doctrine that treats equipment and weapons as disposable items.[74] As units are often deployed without adequate logistical support and dependent on "battlefield cannibalization" for resupply, it is actually more cost-effective to replace rather than repair weapons.[74]
    The AK-47 has small parts and springs that need to be replaced every few thousand rounds. However..."Every time it is disassembled beyond the field stripping stage, it will take some time for some parts to regain their fit, some parts may tend to shake loose and fall out when firing the weapon. Some parts of the AK-47 line are riveted together. Repairing these can be quite a hassle, since the end of the rivet has to be ground off and a new one set after the part is replaced."[
    I doubt that they were interested in having George Frank applying the finish to these weapons.
    ron

  14. #14
    Shellac was even used in ship hull coatings well into the 20 th century in special circumstances. And except for Everclear
    spilled alcohol drinks don't hurt it. Most of the claims against shellac come from the makers of more modern varnishes
    who could make claims against a bug created product without legal consequences. Oops, I was aiming for the gun stock
    post and....missed
    Last edited by Mel Fulks; 10-06-2014 at 12:01 PM. Reason: poor aim

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Morris View Post
    I finished a project with a 2 lb cut of dewaxed shellac in December of 2012. I had close to 1/2 of a pint unused and put it in a sealed jar. I put it in the back of a shelf and it's been there since. Other than the amber natural color, it's clear and there is no sediment that I can see. Would you think it's OK to use on another small project? I have more shellac flakes, but why waste them if it's not necessary. Thanks for any input and considerations. Don M
    It also depends on which type of container it is stored in. if it in a metal container it will deteriorate quicker. glass or plastic containers w/o metal lids are best. Zinser uses a plastic lined can for their product
    ron

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