Hey Winton - V11 on a Washita Stone Only

[Bill White]

All you guys are "stoned".
Bill

[Matthew N. Masail]

All you guys are "stoned".
Bill

If by "stoned" you mean we are HONING OUR SKILLS, then yes, you are right

[Bill Moser]

I think I need a vice.

With my white-bread upbringing, I think I realize now what I missed out on: I think I needed vice.

But seriously, I don't find that my water stones (shapton pros) make more of a mess, or are more finicky than my DMT duo-sharps. OK, I guess they need flattening once in a while, but that takes about 30 seconds. I like them better, for both freehanding, and jig-based sharpening. It does seem, however, that we jig-users (or Jigolos, as we prefer to be called) seem to prefer water stones. I've never owned any oil stones though, so maybe I'm missing out.

[Moses Yoder]

This whole dad gum thread and nobody asked what plane was used to make the shaving, and how thick the shaving is in a mic.

[Bill Moser]

I could be mistaken, but think the David's point was that PM-V11 steel (it is steel, isn't it?) can be sharpened well and quickly on oil stones. And I was just getting used to A2, dammit.

[Winton Applegate]

WHAT are you trying to show,David????

George,
Don’t worry, David is OK (well relatively . . . about as OK as he and I get) . . . this is just sharpening dude crazy talk, I wouldn’t worry about it . . . sort of like Art for ART’s sake . . .
Sharpening for SHARPENING’S sake
can’t expect a dry stone guy to get into it, you’re too practical, tooooooo . . . “lets get to the woodworking“
some times a guy just has to sharpen . . .
well . . .
just to sharpen.

David,
Is that maple ?
Looks like maple.

Am I ready ?
Oh . . . no . . . no . . . it’s too soon.
I . . . I . . . I . . . dunnO . . . I need time . . . time to think . . . I need space . . .
Outer space . . .
what am I saying . . .
. . . that’s about it really.
I hope you understand. (If you do splain it to me.)

Maybe you could put up a photo of a proper washita . . . you know . . . to help get me used to the idea of considering thinking about the whole idea.

PS: I don't have any ""V-11 blades.
Those are for babies ! ! ! !
. . . I mean, I just haven't had the occasion to get one. I pretty much have what I need and like what I have.
I just haven't ordered one to try it out is all.
Call me old fashioned.
Ha, ha, ha.

[Winton Applegate]

#4 was a bit too dull, I just used the Washita and a translucent Arkansas. Bit of stropping and the edge was razor sharp again. Works a treat!

Yah . . . must have been a O1 or W or sum . . . I mean . . . some such.
try the ark on an A2. You will just hear sinister and maniacal laughter . . .
as the ark goes down in flames and the A2 adds another slash mark on the side of his cockpit.

PS: Or maybe you are just burnishing the blade with the ark. That tac has crossed my mind lately but seems to be just one of my sharpening "rituals" more than a practical final step.

Don't expect any metal to come off an A2 onto a trans ark.

[David Weaver]

With my white-bread upbringing, I think I realize now what I missed out on: I think I needed vice.

But seriously, I don't find that my water stones (shapton pros) make more of a mess, or are more finicky than my DMT duo-sharps. OK, I guess they need flattening once in a while, but that takes about 30 seconds. I like them better, for both freehanding, and jig-based sharpening. It does seem, however, that we jig-users (or Jigolos, as we prefer to be called) seem to prefer water stones. I've never owned any oil stones though, so maybe I'm missing out.

I think (my opinion, I've got a little of everything), that oilstones are not a really good choice for a guide. A guide is a good piece of a kit that include stones that abrade predictably and constantly, thus waterstones and maybe diamond stones. Oilstones and their narrow width start to make sense when you're working freehand (the narrow width keeps them from getting hollow across their width - they can still get hollow across their length if not used correctly.

I like shapton pros a lot, too. The only issue I ever had with them is that they cut so purely and release so little swarf that my hands were always black. I really didn't have too much quibbles with shapton pros...when you use them a lot, you can forget how messy the old waterstones, like the kings, were.

[David Weaver]

George,
Don’t worry, David is OK (well relatively . . . about as OK as he and I get) . . . this is just sharpening dude crazy talk, I wouldn’t worry about it . . . sort of like Art for ART’s sake . . .
Sharpening for SHARPENING’S sake
can’t expect a dry stone guy to get into it, you’re too practical, tooooooo . . . “lets get to the woodworking“
some times a guy just has to sharpen . . .
well . . .
just to sharpen.

David,
Is that maple ?
Looks like maple.

Am I ready ?
Oh . . . no . . . no . . . it’s too soon.
I . . . I . . . I . . . dunnO . . . I need time . . . time to think . . . I need space . . .
Outer space . . .
what am I saying . . .
. . . that’s about it really.
I hope you understand. (If you do splain it to me.)

Maybe you could put up a photo of a proper washita . . . you know . . . to help get me used to the idea of considering thinking about the whole idea.

PS: I don't have any ""V-11 blades.
Those are for babies ! ! ! !
. . . I mean, I just haven't had the occasion to get one. I pretty much have what I need and like what I have.
I just haven't ordered one to try it out is all.
Call me old fashioned.
Ha, ha, ha.

I'll get an ugly picture. It's not a road you want to go down, it's filled with self torture!

[Bill Moser]

I like shapton pros a lot, too. The only issue I ever had with them is that they cut so purely and release so little swarf that my hands were always black. I really didn't have too much quibbles with shapton pros...when you use them a lot, you can forget how messy the old waterstones, like the kings, were.

Yes, exactly. I moved from kings to the shaptons almost immediately. Give them a wipe with a piece of paper towel after each blade and they're good to go for the next one.

I do work freehand quite a bit with the shaptons. The only exception is for BD plane blades. Undoubtedly my lack of freehand skill, but I tend to dub them over if I freehand them.

[Winton Applegate]

I've never owned any oil stones though, so maybe I'm missing out.

Well my hard ark is pretty and you can hold it up to the light and see how the light glows through it. So that is fun.
Other than that you aren't missing out, that and the price is breath taking.

The photo of the results on the razors in that link from David a week or so ago was impressive. The results on my A2s as far as actually abrading them was absolutely non existent though so only get it for basic high carbon steel blades.

David, not that I need it but, I looked on line for the "Chinese" stone and did not find it for sale at Woodcraft or else where. I didn't look at Stew's / figured he wouldn't have that.

Ha, ha,
Are there agencies that go out and hand pick, (what was it ? wrinkly?) stones for hermits like me that pretty much just buy on line.
You don't have to answer that.

That reminds me (and shows how out of touch I am with brick and mortar stores) . . . my apologies to Bruce Mack for recommending he could try out a LN #3 at a Woodcraft. I had forgotten there was some falling out and LN dropped Woodcraft.

While looking for the Chinese stone I rediscovered that.

PS: I may as well include my old photo showing how the A2 POLISHED the hard ark. The whole surface is polished though it was difficult for me to photograph it as it really looks. A diamond plate restores the surface to its abrasive good looks but not worth it to use the ark on A2 all the time.

.

[David Weaver]

The washita gets put to sleep a little bit by the V11, too, but not completely.

You want your hard ark to be a stone that does nothing but polish. it's not like waterstones where you want that final stone to cut a little bit of a bevel, they just work differently, and folks who use oilstones like they'd use waterstones are destined to be frustrated.

This is the washita that I've been using a lot lately. It really doesn't make any difference which washita as long as you stick with it until it's settled in. This must be an old one because when I got it, it was worn hollow in the middle about 1/2 inch, and it was almost as thick as it is wide, and the bottom has an irregular cut. I used the hard surface on the end of a cheap belt sander and beat on it for about a half hour and it was close enough to flat at that point to finish it off on a DMT. (this kind of thing is freehand, too, no guides...har har....actually, it's stinky work, it ruins a sanding belt and it smells like fire when it's being abraded...I guess that's the smell of silicosis)

This stone has a little bit of metal swarf dried onto it (despite the fact that I used it several times today). That's what happens with WD 40....and you know, I've had mineral oil on this stone left as a film and it does the same thing. It disappears. I know it's not going into the stone because when I obliterated the high bits off of this stone, the oil didn't penetrate that deep into it. Well, I don't know anything, I'm just guessing by that.

P1040250.jpg


And this is the jasper, though now I think it might be unnecessary to use. It's cheap, though!! It isn't as sexy as trans or black arkansas, and it doesn't really ever cut anything (trans and black arks will cut a soft pocket knife pretty convincingly - jasper polishes everything).

P1040251.jpg

The jasper will make a2 sharp like a synthetic stone if you're willing to lean on it. As in the results look similar to the shaving in the first post of this thread. Woe be to the person who leaves a foreign particle on the surface of a stone this hard, though.

[David Weaver]

Oh, and just a random bit of natural stone loveliness - here's a semi translucent (but very dense, more dense than some trans stones I have) finisher that I got off of ebay last year. I'm trying to pawn it off on a few razor users, but I do think it's pretty.

P1040218.jpg

[Winton Applegate]

You want your hard ark to be a stone that does nothing but polish. it's not like waterstones where you want that final stone to cut a little bit of a bevel, they just work differently, and folks who use oilstones like they'd use waterstones are destined to be frustrated.

I am beginning to get a glimmer of the truth / fact of that.

I think to be totally clear for the people trying to understand this though that we should emphasize the term "Burnish" rather than "polish". Burnishing moves the metal around to smooth scratches, fill them in or remove them as if one were smoothing clay . . .
without actually removing any metal / swarf.

Again . . . I am not so sure this will have any practical effect on the cutting of the wood. It just looks good under the microscope.

And speaking of looking good under the microscope . . .
what say to my findings on a source for said Chinese stone. Am I out of luck ?
Tell me it isn't so !?!?

[Winton Applegate]

Or visy versy. Yo ! That semi trans looks very cool; like it belongs in a sci fi movie.

And yah that is one ugly dog in the first photo. Gets the job done though obviously.

I don't know what to think about the jasper. That is so foreign. Does one flatten something like that ? and if it isn't then doesn't the lines/ crevasses beat on the edge ?
My head is swimming.

Thank you for putting those photos up by the way !