Gun Stock Finish

[Bob Wingard]

You may be right ... I doubt we'll ever know for sure ... but there are many ways to acquire the same look, and probably better protection at a much reduced cost. I prefer dyes and several ultra-thin coats of either Waterlox or a good varnish ... it's just what I've gotten used to. Dyes are so much fun to experiment with, and they are both layerable and reversible ... they are the most forgiving colorant there is, and they don't add any oils or binders to the surface that might hinder the finish in the future. In my opinion, linseed oil, being an oil, is in itself a contaminant ... all of your topcoat finishes warn you to thoroughly remove any oils from the wood before application ... and here we are, sloshing on an oil that never really hardens or cures completely. Heck ... why not just dip it in 10-W30 ???

[ron david]

You may be right ... I doubt we'll ever know for sure ... but there are many ways to acquire the same look, and probably better protection at a much reduced cost. I prefer dyes and several ultra-thin coats of either Waterlox or a good varnish ... it's just what I've gotten used to. Dyes are so much fun to experiment with, and they are both layerable and reversible ... they are the most forgiving colorant there is, and they don't add any oils or binders to the surface that might hinder the finish in the future. In my opinion, linseed oil, being an oil, is in itself a contaminant ... all of your topcoat finishes warn you to thoroughly remove any oils from the wood before application ... and here we are, sloshing on an oil that never really hardens or cures completely. Heck ... why not just dip it in 10-W30 ???

this all depends whether you really use your gun or not. I look at guns as tools ; to be used. if they are collectables and to be used as show pieces is another category. with BLO it is simple if it gets scuffed a little just give it a wipe with piece of s/paper and apply some more oil, wipe it dry and away go. if you put a little scratch in that nicely varnished piece you are not more than likely fit to be lived with for a few days.
it is like building a car;are you doing it to drive or to be a trailer queen
ron

[Howard Acheson]

All this means is that there are three components mixed together to produce the product. "Modified Oil" is marketing jargon for Polymerized Tung Oil. Polymerized means the Tung Oil has been heated (modified) to particular degree that causes the very slow curing Tung Oil to dry/cure more rapidly. Linseed oil is added because it more easily penetrates the wood while mineral spirits is a thinner to allow easier application. Mineral spirits adds no solids to the mixture. It all evaporates and disappears. It is not a varnish at all. It's oil pure and simple.

[Mark W Pugh]

I just ordered some Tru-Oil and just finished the sanding by hand to 320 grit. Tru-Oil should be here Wednesday so I'll know more after that. I'm just going to take my time. My friend doesn't need the gun back until mid November.

Good deal. Tru-Oil has always worked for me.

[Bob Wingard]

this all depends whether you really use your gun or not. I look at guns as tools ; to be used. if they are collectables and to be used as show pieces is another category. with BLO it is simple if it gets scuffed a little just give it a wipe with piece of s/paper and apply some more oil, wipe it dry and away go. if you put a little scratch in that nicely varnished piece you are not more than likely fit to be lived with for a few days.
it is like building a car;are you doing it to drive or to be a trailer queen
ron

I have a Winchester 101 Trap Gun that I refinished back in 1974 using sprayed-on DEFT lacquer. It spent 3-5 nights a week out in Chicago weather at the trap fields ... sometimes, more ... it looks like new today, so the argument about "SHOOTERS" vs. "SAFE QUEENS" holds no water. It's not about whether a gun is used or not ... it's about how you care for it while using it.
How would you define "FINISH", and how does BLO fit into the definition ??? It offers ZERO protection ... does not inhibit the transmission of water into the stock ... it is organic and supportive of mold growth if not topcoated. The reason BLO is so easy to touch up (only if NOT topcoated) is that it never really dries ... you might as well use Canola oil. BLO's only real use is as a colorant, and there are much better materials available to accomplish that task. Yeah, I know your great-grandfather used it on everything, but he didn't have the knowledge and access to the materials we have today ... 100 years or so does a lot in that regard.


Oils
Drying oils, such as linseed and tung, are appropriate natural
finishes for indoor use and are fine for indoor furniture and
other interior uses not subjected to water or high humidity.
Oils perform poorly outdoors because they are natural prod
-
ucts and therefore provide food for mildew. When used on
highly colored woods such as redwood or the cedars, they
tend to increase mildew growth. Even if formulated with a
mildewcide, they may not give adequate performance out
-
doors. The original “Madison Formula” for a semitranspar
-
ent stain could be formulated with up to 60% linseed oil and
it contained 5% pentachlorophenol as a mildewcide. Even
with this mildewcide, it was prone to develop mildew.

source :

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fp...chapter_16.pdf

[Bob Wingard]

All this means is that there are three components mixed together to produce the product. "Modified Oil" is marketing jargon for Polymerized Tung Oil. Polymerized means the Tung Oil has been heated (modified) to particular degree that causes the very slow curing Tung Oil to dry/cure more rapidly. Linseed oil is added because it more easily penetrates the wood while mineral spirits is a thinner to allow easier application. Mineral spirits adds no solids to the mixture. It all evaporates and disappears. It is not a varnish at all. It's oil pure and simple.

Now, I'm no chemist, and I certainly don't even pretend to understand all of this ... but nowhere do I see mention of heat being involved in the polymerization process of Tung Oil ...

In chemical compounds, polymerization occurs via a variety of reaction mechanisms that vary in complexity due to functional groups present in reacting compounds[4] and their inherent steric effects. In more straightforward polymerization, alkenes, which are relatively stable due to \sigma bonding between carbon atoms, form polymers through relatively simple radical reactions; in contrast, more complex reactions such as those that involve substitution at the carbonyl group require more complex synthesis due to the way in which reacting molecules polymerize.[4]

If it is a chemical reaction that actually causes polymerization ... most reactions are speeded up when heat is applied ... some of the Tung Oil finishes state that THEIR Tun Oil has been heated to "encourage" or "facilitate" polymerization. That's pretty much saying "Hey .. I have this polymerized tung oil that I think I'll heat for awhile to make it's description sound more exotic"

[Prashun Patel]

Heat can indeed accelerate the natural tendency of the oil or resin to react with oxygen and harden.

I am not sure, though that pure tung oil can be changed enough through heat alone and/or enough oxygen and time to produce a substance that will dry as hard as the phenolic resin that I believe Waterlox is.

[Howard Acheson]

>>>> The Modified Oil mentioned in the MSDS is polymerized linseed oil as far as I know

That could be Steve. But I have been told that it is a polymerized tung oil. The only real advantage to tung oil is that it is somewhat more water resistant than linseed oil. That's the reason most of the better marine varnishes use tung oil as their drying oil rather than linseed oil.

>>>> making it thicker (until thinned)

Yup, heating it causes the tung oil to dry/cure faster but requires the addition of mineral spirits to thin the solution for easier application.

When it's all said and done, as you mentioned, Tru-Oil is not a varnish, it just a mixture of oils.

[ron david]

I have a Winchester 101 Trap Gun that I refinished back in 1974 using sprayed-on DEFT lacquer. It spent 3-5 nights a week out in Chicago weather at the trap fields ... sometimes, more ... it looks like new today, so the argument about "SHOOTERS" vs. "SAFE QUEENS" holds no water. It's not about whether a gun is used or not ... it's about how you care for it while using it.
How would you define "FINISH", and how does BLO fit into the definition ??? It offers ZERO protection ... does not inhibit the transmission of water into the stock ... it is organic and supportive of mold growth if not topcoated. The reason BLO is so easy to touch up (only if NOT topcoated) is that it never really dries ... you might as well use Canola oil. BLO's only real use is as a colorant, and there are much better materials available to accomplish that task. Yeah, I know your great-grandfather used it on everything, but he didn't have the knowledge and access to the materials we have today ... 100 years or so does a lot in that regard.


Oils
Drying oils, such as linseed and tung, are appropriate natural
finishes for indoor use and are fine for indoor furniture and
other interior uses not subjected to water or high humidity.
Oils perform poorly outdoors because they are natural prod
-
ucts and therefore provide food for mildew. When used on
highly colored woods such as redwood or the cedars, they
tend to increase mildew growth. Even if formulated with a
mildewcide, they may not give adequate performance out
-
doors. The original “Madison Formula” for a semitranspar
-
ent stain could be formulated with up to 60% linseed oil and
it contained 5% pentachlorophenol as a mildewcide. Even
with this mildewcide, it was prone to develop mildew.

source :

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fp...chapter_16.pdf

I was talking real hunting not going out to the country club and doing some clay pigeon shooting
pls define whether or not that you are talking about RLO or BLO as there is a difference
ron

most things are just a learned skill that requires a bit of practice and patience ... anyone can learn it... ; but to carry it out and do it properly is another thing altogether

[John Coloccia]

TruOil is indeed just oils. It will actually build a film if you keep adding it, and it will get hard enough that you can buff it to a pretty high gloss. The Birchwood Casey Sealer actually contains alkyd resin. I personally don't use the sealer.

In fact, TruOil dries so aggressively that shelf life is a serious problem once you've opened it and let air in. The conventional wisdom that pretty much everyone follows is to poke a small hole in the top of the foil to dispense it, and store it upside down. If you don't, you'll come back a month or two later and find your TruOil has started hardening up in the bottle. Also remember that it can spontaneously combust on rags, just like any other drying oil, so treat it as you would BLO.

[Randy Goodhew]

Know-say vs. Hearsay:

Tru-Oil is a combination of Mineral Spirits, Modified Soybean Oil, and Linseed Oil.

Note: I'm a chemist with experience in the wood finishing products industry.

Blessings.

[Mel Fulks]

The soy oil, how common is that in the industry and what's special about it? Thanks

[Brian W Smith]

See if this linky "takes".It's a 3 part article on Brownell's site....at the bttm of page is the clicky for the next article.

Note....don't think there's any problem posting it?If it steps on any forum toes,delete it.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=1...nishing-Part-I

We still do a cpl rifle stocks a year(stock duplicator),a few handgun stocks and a 1/2 dz recurve/longbows.These are working "tools"....be it competition or in the field.We use a spray on epoxy,very similar to Dupont's RKW.There's a reason most pro's charge extra for refinishing epoxy stocks,you practically have to chisel it off.And it dosen't have to be like a Remington(glow in the dark shiny),haha.Good luck with your stock,and read those articles....irrespective of your finish...there's a cpl pearls of wisdom in there(colour related).

[Randy Goodhew]

The soy oil, how common is that in the industry and what's special about it? Thanks

"Modified Soybean Oil" is the most frequently used industrial drying oil for wood finishes and paints in North America.

Blessings.

[Sean Troy]

I used Tru-Oil and am happy with the way it came out. I would like to either buff out with rottenstone, which I know will give it a satin finish, or wet sand. If I wet sand it with 600 grit, what should I use as a liquid?