Another battery question...

[john davey]

just how long on average should they last. I have two Ryobi 18v batteries that are about two~three years old and both now are basically dead. I can charge them and they will work for a bit but the next time I use them they are dead. When new they could sit for weeks and still work fine. My use is very infrequent which I am assuming hurts them but not really sure. They are the Ryobi one+batteries that are black/yellow which came out right before they went to the neon green color. Basically this battery:http://www.svcvacuum.com/ryobi/13022...g1-RoC7PPw_wcB

Is two years about what you get from these or am I miss using them somehow??? They do sit allot not in the charger and go dead before I charge them up. Not sure if that is bad or not. And for the record I am strictly a hobbyist at this point and the Ryobi line does what I need. I will not wear them out. I do understand there are better stuff and am not really looking for this thread to go there Thanks, John

[Halgeir Wold]

Are these Nickel Cadmium ( NiCd) or metal-Hydride ( NiMH)....????
NiCd are usually listed for an average og 600 +/- recharges, varies somewhat with charger types. One of the bad things with NiCd is deep discharge and then being stored, - repeated half use and then recharge is ideallt also a no-no.....
NiMH should fare better according to spec, - being more tolerant of discharge and storage, but I'm not so sure about that...
My Bosch have the same symptoms with aftermarket packs.

[john davey]

Yes these are NiCd so it is possible my use habits have killed these. It seems lion is a better battery for my infrequent use. I can just leave them in the charger. I guess the good news is the one+ stuff will take lion so I think a new battery/ charger in that format might be best for me??? Thoughts.

[Charles Wiggins]

I have a few Ryobi One+ tools and replaced the NiCd battery with a Lithium Ion (P104) in 2008 and it is still going. At the time, I did some research and what I read said that the life expectancy of a Li-Ion battery was 2-3 years REGARDLESS OF THE NUMBER OF CHARGING CYCLES. My first One+ 18v Li-Ion battery is around 6 years old and still going strong, but I expect to have to replace it any time now. I have since purchased another and between the two I am never without a charged battery.

I would never buy another NiCd if Li-Ion is an option: They're lighter, charge faster, run longer, hold a charge faaaaar longer when idol, and have almost no drop-off in power output until they are almost completely discharged - in other words the tool does not get slower and slower and slower until you're forced to charge it, the tool just stops when you're out of juice. Most Lithium batteries have a governor built in that prevents a full discharge (which destroys the battery).

I am an infrequent user like you. I don't typically leave my batteries on the charger. With Li-Ion there's no reason to. I tend to recharge them and then remove them and put one back in the drill so it's ready to go. I've had times when I didn't touch the drill for a couple of months but then had a day-long project and did the whole thing without even having to switch batteries.

Be aware when you go to shop there are two different sizes of One+18v Li-Ion batteries. The High Capacity (P104 or P105) ~$90, and the Compact (P102 or P103) ~$40. The P104 is the "original" and what I have. I think the P105 is supposed to be a bit better. Just be sure you are getting the one you really want.

[john davey]

thanks Charles, I'll look into it. John

[cody michael]

I just switched over to all ridgid battery tools, they have a lifetime warranty, on parts and batteries, when they die they replace for free. yes they are more expensive up front but any battery adds up quick. keep them for awhile and get a few free batteries and they are a great value.

[John Piwaron]

With Li-Ion batteries, there's no reason *not* to leave them in the charger. The charger has electronics to baby them. Ni-Cad, otoh, shouldn't be left in the charger. FWIW, *all* batteries, regardless of chemistry, will be "killed" if they're run totally dead.

Li-ion has the property of losing 1/3 of it's capacity, the first year, another 1/3 the 2nd, then leveling off at somewhere around 50% of it's original stated capacity. This is something not widely advertised. It's a problem I deal with in my employment.

Even so, I don't want a new Li-ion tool. I want another pack for my 14v Milwaukee drill. It's Ni-Cad. I like it, it does what I need it to do. I used to have 3 packs for it, but lack of use brought an untimely end to 2 of those packs. I don't have any issue with the run time of the pack that remains. It works about as good as it ever has. I think it's going to be a shame to lose what is a perfectly good drill when that last pack finally fails.

And that's whats wrong with cordless tools. By the time the batteries reach the end of their lives, the packs may not be available any longer. Requiring complete replacement of an otherwise perfectly good tool.

I'm going back to corded. I don't like this planned obsolescence. Cordless is very nice. But it stops being nice when they stop making battery packs forcing purchase of an entirely new system.

[Terry Wawro]

J. Davey, I have the same Ryobi batteries and they only lasted about three years before they started doing exactly like yours.

[Dave Cullen]

I got about 4 years out of the Dewalt 12V NiCads in my drill. I had 2 batteries and rotated them between charger and the tool, and in retrospect I should have removed the one in the charger when it was charged. New batteries cost almost as much as a new tool, so I switched to a lithium ion Craftsman. Nice drill.

[john davey]

Thanks Terry, I might have gotten less as I left mine in the charger all the time which it seems is a no no. This is why I will be replacing with Li On. Infrequent use will not kill them.

[Keith Weber]

Everyone is talking 2 or 3 years here. I must be the odd man out here. Back in 2002, I bought a 19.2V Porter Cable 1/2" drill. I also bought a spare battery and a flashlight for it at about the same time. My usage is a little unconventional. I get about a week to 10 days off, where the drill gets used multiple times daily, then it sits for about a month to 6 weeks while I'm overseas.

After 12 years, I'm still on the same 2 batteries. When I run one until the drill stops turning, I put it on the charger and use the 2nd one. Once the first one is charged, I take it off the charger and set it on my workbench. I believe they're NiCad batteries. I will admit, though, for the last 2 years or so, I have noticed that they discharge faster, and I have been thinking about getting the batteries rebuilt. But with the two batteries, my downtime is still almost non-existent. Not counting the last 2 years of questionable capacity, that gives me 10 years of good use.

I don't know why my batteries lasted as long as they did. I hope I get another 10 years out of them if I rebuild the batteries. There's an eBay guy with the name john_hoffa that does rebuilds on these things for about $58. I'm thinking of giving him a try. Has anyone used him?

FWIW, I also have a smaller 14.4V Makita that I got as a freebee with my SCMS. It's a nice little drill, but I haven't had the same luck with the batteries on that one.

[Jay Yoder]

I too have exerienced this phenomena. In fact I just lost 1 battery completely and another will only charge with my original 2005 charger. I have toyed with the idea of just buying a bunch of cells and rebuilding them as they fail. I hate that it is cheaper to buy a new drill kit for $69 with 2 of the lighter lithium batteries. I have about 5 drills laying around. Other than the batter problems, they do their job. I would like to go Ridgid, but can't justify when I have a bunch of the one+ tools.