Flat vs Round bottom Spokeshave

[Dave Kirby]

Hi everyone! I am in the market for my first Spokeshave and I wanted to know if someone can explain the difference between the flat and the round/concave bottom shaves (besides the obvious, of course. lol) and the applications for each? Which one might be a better choice for my first spokeshave? Thanks again for any help you can give!

[Derrell W Sloan]

I'd strongly suggest getting a flat bottom spoke shave if this is your first one. They are very versatile tools that are a joy to use. I use my flat bottom spoke shave far more than my round bottom one. The only thing I use my round bottom shave for is working on inside (concave) curves. I have a Veritas and a vintage Stanley 151 flat bottom spokeshaves. The Stanley is much lighter and has a little different feel. It was probably 4x cheaper than the Veritas, and while I can't fault the Veritas, it is a great tool, I also can't fault the Stanley. They both work equally well.

[John Coloccia]

Personally, I prefer the a convex bottom if I can only have one (and it happens that I only have one, by the way). It's kind of like a draw knife with training wheels. I think the flat vs convex thing is going to be preference and the kind of work you're doing, not any sort of rule of thumb, other than to say that with some effort you can duplicate the work of a flat bottom shave with a round spoke shave, but not the other way around.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi everyone! I am in the market for my first Spokeshave and I wanted to know if someone can explain the difference between the flat and the round/concave bottom shaves (besides the obvious, of course. lol) and the applications for each? Which one might be a better choice for my first spokeshave? Thanks again for any help you can give!

Hi Dave

Obviously, flat bottom shaves are for flat work and round bottom shaves are for curves. Yes? Well, not quite. In essence that is true, but each may be used interchangeably, just with less range.

Like Derrell, I would recommend a flat shave. The round shaves can be quite tricky to use at first as the curved sole leaves little area for registration, and you have to hold them just right.

Many starting out like a shave with adjusters. Both Lee Valley and Stanley offer a range. You tend to get what you pay for - unless you spend time tuning. Most of us started out with Stanleys (e.g. Stanley #151), and then moved on. I still have a couple which, owing to their wider mouths, I use for rank cuts. As with all tools, a sharp blade makes the biggest difference, and the modern shaves tend to have better steel and thicker blades, which adds to edge-holding and stability in a cut.

My own preference is for shaves that do not have adjusters. They have a less encumbered feel. In the new version, Lie Nielsen offer some excellent choices (which I use), and again Stanley do so in more entry versions (e.g. Stanley #51).

The second-hand market is a good place to start looking. Keep an eye out for a Stanley #53 (and the #54, I think), which has an adjustable mouth. This is a wonderful shave - balanced and easy to adjust for rank or finishing cut.

In addition to metal shaves, there are low angle wooden shaves. There is also the metal bodied LA Lee Valley version. I like these a lot, but suggest trying a bevel down type (above) first.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Bill Houghton]

There are low angle shaves; your question implies that you're asking about bevel down shaves. Flat bottomed shaves are planes with very, very short soles. They'll do long inside curves quite well. With a round-bottomed shave, you're balancing the cut on a very, very short sole (the front and back of the mouth, generally), and the line between cutting lovely curls and damitol is an extremely fine one. Still, for tight curves, they're a better tool.

Start with a flat bottomed shave. When you find yourself frustrated by trying to cut into curves tighter than it can handle, it's time for a round-bottomed shave. One tip: always pull a round-bottomed shave; the body mechanics work better that way, at least for me, and chattering has been less of an issue since I started pulling the shave. Flat-bottomed shaves can be pushed or pulled, depending on the particular cut.

[Jim Koepke]

Like John, a round bottom spokeshave would be my choice if there could only one in my tool kit. Unlike John my tool kit has a few different spokeshaves.

Getting the hang of a spokeshave would be a bit difficult but not impossible with a round bottom spokeshave. The Stanley #63 is a fairly easy one for someone just starting.

A flat bottomed spokeshave like a Stanley #51 would be a lot easier for a newcomer to spokeshaves.

So far my accumulation includes 3 flat bottom shaves. It is easy to keep them set for different blade depths. Some prefer to have one side cut deeper than the other for varying cut depth.

Are you planning to buy new or used?

jtk

[Prashun Patel]

I agree that flat bottoms are easier to learn on. I disagree that flat bottoms can do inside curves easily (at least thats my experience). However, another way to skin the inside curve cat is to use a rasp.

[Derek Cohen]

I agree that flat bottoms are easier to learn on. I disagree that flat bottoms can do inside curves easily (at least thats my experience). However, another way to skin the inside curve cat is to use a rasp.

Hi Prashun

It really depends on what you call an inside curve. That is, what size the radius of the curve actually is. For example, I have no doubt that most flat bottomed spokeshaves could plane a 6" radius curve, which is reasonably tight.

Here is a Stanley #53 managing a 6" comfortably, struggling on a 5" curve, and then failing on a 4".



Many of the curves on furniture would be easily done with a flat spokeshave. This makes it the first choice for someone starting out.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[lowell holmes]

The currently available Stanley spoke shaves just do not perform like the #53. I have two of the current Stanley shaves and they are never used because of their performance.

I have no problems with the LV shaves (I have the large flat shave, the low angle shave, and the new cast ss shave). My Lovejoy wooden shave is a good performer as well.

I really like the new LV shave. It leaves an incredibly smooth surface that needs no sanding and it does flat surface as well as curved.

[John Coloccia]

Hmmm...looks like I'm in the definite minority here! Maybe I'll pick up a flat spokeshave one of these days. I never really cared for them, but maybe I should give it another chance since everyone seems to like them best.

[Bill Houghton]

If you don't have trouble with chatter with your round-bottomed shave, stick with it. Flat shaves require less finesse.

But, regardless = directing this comment back to the original question - if you're offered a Kunz spokeshave of any kind, even if it's free, resist. I had a round-bottomed Kunz shave - my first spokeshave - that, even after I learned how to use one, I could never manage to use. Chattered like mad.

[John Coloccia]

If you don't have trouble with chatter with your round-bottomed shave, stick with it. Flat shaves require less finesse.

But, regardless = directing this comment back to the original question - if you're offered a Kunz spokeshave of any kind, even if it's free, resist. I had a round-bottomed Kunz shave - my first spokeshave - that, even after I learned how to use one, I could never manage to use. Chattered like mad.

I gave one away for free on the condition that it never be sent back.

[Jim Koepke]

If you don't have trouble with chatter with your round-bottomed shave, stick with it. Flat shaves require less finesse.

But, regardless = directing this comment back to the original question - if you're offered a Kunz spokeshave of any kind, even if it's free, resist. I had a round-bottomed Kunz shave - my first spokeshave - that, even after I learned how to use one, I could never manage to use. Chattered like mad.

Not all spoke shaves are created equal. Some are created unusable.

I gave one away for free on the condition that it never be sent back.

I have saved mine incase the box or hardware may one day become useful.

jtk

[Mike Holbrook]

I think the answer, as per usual depends on how/what the OP plans to use the tool for. It is a simplification to classify spokeshaves as having either flat or round bottoms. Many "flat" spokeshaves do not have "flat bottoms. Glenn at WoodJoy Tools informs me that his #85 spokeshave has something like a 3-7? degree angle to the brass adjustable sole. There are also spokeshaves like the WoodJoy #85 that have adjustable mouths/soles, which may move the sole well below the blade. The sole of the Lie-Nielsen Boggs spokeshaves is another example of a straight comparison of sole types not being the entire picture. The rounding on the sole of the round/compass shave is so slight it is almost unnoticeable, at first glance, as compared to the "flat" bottom shave.

In skilled hands I believe the round bottom shave is a more versatile tool as it can reach into areas the flat sole can not. Whether or not one can work a flat surface better with a flat or curved sole is not as simple a question as one might think, especially considering that many flat soled spokeshaves do not have flat soles. Another consideration being that the work the spokeshave often does on a flat surface is the removal of tear out below the surface. I believe it is relatively common for spokeshave owners to customize the degree of curve\relief in front of the blade to their own specific needs.

The variation in "compass" or "rounded" soles may be very dramatic. WoodJoy Tools Master Spokeshave has a sole that can be rotated, one side is "flat" and the other side when taken off & rotated is almost round. The 2" and 1" WoodJoy spokeshaves come in regular "flat" versions and a compass version. Placing a square on the blade of my 2" "flat" shave reveals that the brass sole is at a slight angle. My 2" compass shave has a small brass wear plate that appears to be very rounded very fast, yet I find this particular spokeshave to be very forgiving, easy to use and versatile.

Then there are spokeshaves with concave and convex blades. In my experience sculpting Windsor Chair seats, even rounded spokeshaves can not reach into some areas as the straight handles often strike convex sections before the blade can reach wood. This leads us to another "spokeshave" called a Travisher that typically uses a blade with the entire blade body curved and handles that turn way up (super gull wings) which enable the tool to get into those concave areas in chair seats. The point I would like to make is there is a great variety of spokeshave designs just like there is a great variety of plane designs. In the case of spokeshaves flat is not always flat and compass/round shaves may even have less blade "relief" than some flat shaves. It pays not only to observe the differences but to try out the various tools doing the work you want to use the tool for.

[Adam Cruea]

Personally, I prefer the a convex bottom if I can only have one (and it happens that I only have one, by the way). It's kind of like a draw knife with training wheels. I think the flat vs convex thing is going to be preference and the kind of work you're doing, not any sort of rule of thumb, other than to say that with some effort you can duplicate the work of a flat bottom shave with a round spoke shave, but not the other way around.

Same camp here.

I tried the flat-bottom and convex at LN this summer.

Quite the specialty tool, but an excellent one to have around. I can at least say that it makes making tool handles loads, loads easier. It's also less likely to disembowel you, unlike a draw knife, when you get overzealous and into the work. :P