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Thread: Felder Band Saw - New Ceramic Guides

  1. #16
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    Sep 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silas Smith View Post
    I have the fb600 (you win by 10mm &#128512 but does anyone know if the guides are different? I have access to the machine shop at work and I'm curious if I could make my own or if it would be worth it
    yes they will fit the fb600. the 610 is the same size as the 600. they are pretty much the same machine. the biggest difference that i know about is table tilt, the 610 will do 45 where the 600 only does 22ish. there are probably some other smaller improvements.

  2. #17
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    Ceramic guides promt an interesting question. Seeems to me that ordinarily speaking the guides are not regarded as being all that critical to band saw performance. (on a big/stiff saw that is) Against that the ceramic guides can supposedly be set to touch the blade at two points on each side without causing heating. Which potentially has the effect of damping ripples/vibration/high frequency waves moving vertically up and down the blade (like when you 'crack' the end of a rope and wave moves along it) - which might stop it flapping from side to side and hence deliver a cleaner sawn surface.

    The $1m question seems to be whether or not this happens in practice. There's been ceramic guides around for quite a while (one of the Italian saw makers), but they don't seem to have taken off in any very big way???

  3. #18
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    Feb 2003
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    I installed the new 1" Lennox Trimaster blade this morning and made a couple quick cuts, one in a piece of cherry and the other in Corian. Right out of the gate the difference between the old blade and the Trimaster is nothing short of incredible. My carpenters square shows the cuts were a perfect 90 degrees but the edges were not as smooth as the old blade.

    I have a job in the shop right now that will keep me polishing Corian for the rest of the day so I won't get a chance to do a resaw test until tonight or tomorrow morning
    .

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
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    Basildon Essex UK
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    Hi Susumu

    $128 is a good price, here in England the ceramic guides for my Hammer 4400 bandsaw cost £120 each, upper and lower set = £240, quite a high price and we are part of Europe.

    I'm also looking to change my Euro style guides, they are noisy and bind up occasionally but it seems reading the threads the bandsaw is a tricky machine to set up.

    Will probably have to just buy and try.

  5. #20
    Hello
    Yes they are newly available for the Hammer Line.

    Here's link to the Online Hammer/Felder store where they are offered

    http://us.feldershop.com/en-US/en-US...ro-guides.html

    Jim

  6. #21
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    Feb 2003
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    I had the opportunity to rip some long poplar boards yesterday and the cut was smooth as silk. Better yet the cuts were perfectly straight, better then the quality I have been getting on my table saw and I was able to rip the boards faster than I normally do on my table saw without being concerned about kickback. The new ceramic guides with the new blade made a big difference in performance and quality.

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by ian maybury View Post
    The $1m question seems to be whether or not this happens in practice. There's been ceramic guides around for quite a while (one of the Italian saw makers), but they don't seem to have taken off in any very big way???
    Ceramic guide blocks have been around for about 18 years, when they were patented by SpaceAge Ceramics, which supplies them to Felder (and others) for installation on their equipment. The original owners/inventors were not particularly marketing oriented, which could explain the lack of "have taken off in a very big way..."
    Last edited by Ken Fitzgerald; 02-11-2015 at 7:11 PM.

  8. #23
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    One of the Italian saw makers has offered them for yonks - but you would imagine that if it made a lot of difference that it would have created demand.

    It strikes me looking at the thread again and your link Mark that it ought to be very possible to make a set of DIY ceramic guides for very small money. Choose an appropriate set of ceramic blocks from your link (about $50), then mount them in DIY aluminium blocks. Could be very easy, or might not be so simple depending on the saw layout.

    Ceramics are fairly easily bonded, although you need a high flexibility adhesive when on to steel or aluminium to handle the relative movement with temperature changes. Maybe: http://www.masterbond.com/tds/ep37-3flf Some sort of mechanical retention might be better.

    The Felder (and the Laguna) items both use a vertically fairly widely spaced pair of blocks - wonder if this is significant. It might be more effective to damp out flutter or whatever. Against that some makers use a ceramic faced version of the Euro guides...

  9. #24
    Boy those Felder guides of yours look like they are very nicely made. I may be interpreting what I really can't see from a photo but it looks like they are machined to very tight tolerances. I know whenever I have the guides for any bandsaw in hand I always note how well they square up to the guide post mating surfaces for the upper guide and the bracket for the lower guide.

    I wonder about the rear ceramic guide or thrust bearing myself. I have read Laguna instructions. They are very definitive about the back of the blade riding on the rear guide, telling the user pretty clearly that they should be in contact. They also go on to tell you that the expectation is that the rear of the blade will also be rounded by the rear guide and further the expectation is that the back of the blade is going to "leave its mark" so to speak. They ask that you rotate the rear guide as blades wear into the leading surface. I have to look again but I think they recommend rotating it during blade changes and then also after a certain number of hours in operation. But at least the way I read it that might also mean that if you get the rear guide exerting more pressure than Laguna expects then maybe you are going to get deeper into that rear guide than Laguna wants and that you will like as a user.

    This is going to be my first experience with ceramic guides....maybe the same for many of us. I think in my case, I might try rounding the blade as opposed to relying on the ceramic rear guide to do it. I have to think the back of the blade would be less inclined to get as far into the rear guide that way and then I might also just rest the back of the blade lightly against the rear guide figuring just the cutting action is going to cause the blade to deflect at least some minor degree rearward anyway.

    Good luck with the Felder's Keith. They look really nice. Hopefully you will let us know how they work out for you over time.

  10. #25
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    Feb 2003
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    James,

    So far so good with my FB-610 but I still haven't had a big job for the saw yet so I can give it a real workout. Every cut I have made so far has impressed me though, the saw cuts without effort which is a long way from my previous experience with band saws. The five HP motor with the one inch 3TPI carbide bade is the hot setup.

  11. #26
    I have been using the ceramic guides on my FB510 for about 4 months, I guess.
    They have impressive quality and mass.
    I much prefer it to the original euro guides, not because of the cutting quality but the ease of adjustment; slightly pinch the side guides, make sure the blade is not feeling too much friction, and ready.

    As for the rear thrust guides, I tested the Laguna's way (almost touching) and the way suggested by many experts in the forum (move it away from the blade). I much prefer the latter regardless of the ceramic or euro style. With a 1-inch blade and enough tension, the blade can cut by its own tension. The thrust guide is there just to avoid the garret catching the side guides and let me know how much force I'm applying to the blade. Once the blade hits the thrust guide, I ease the pressure. The cutting becomes much quieter and smoother in this way

  12. #27
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    Apr 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Mathewson View Post
    I hope your experiences are better than mine have been on a Laguna. The side guides aren't so bad, although they are a pain to setup but the rear guide which should be a thrust bearing is pure rubbish.
    Mine work very well

  13. #28
    I like that idea myself Susumu. After all, these guides are not the Carter scroll saw adapter with a bearing that the back of the blade is actually running in full time. I also like the idea of getting some forewarning that I might be exerting just a bit more pressure than I should be. I am far from perfect and way far from patient.

  14. #29
    Hi James,

    One thing I noticed with a wide blade is, if I push it against the rear thrust guide, the back of the blade gets deflected (to the right in my FB510 and Resaw King). The harder I push, the more tilted the blade. When I push the board slower, the blade comes back, the back of the blade gets detached from the guide, and the orientation of the blade comes back straight. So, during a cut, the blade does butt-shaking dance, which exaggerates the saw marks. So, in my opinion, we should stay away from the real thrust guide. I believe in the side guides, although some say they are not necessary either.

    I didn't notice all these when I was using my 14-inch saw with 1/2 inch blades. Large saws with wide blades and high tension are very different beast.

  15. #30
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    Feb 2003
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    I installed my rear blocks right up against the back of the band saw blade on both top and bottom, they work perfectly.

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