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Thread: Alternative to Dovetailing

  1. #1
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    Alternative to Dovetailing

    Are there any alternatives to dovetailing the feet onto the leg of a candle stand as shown below? I know it's the way to do it I'm just wondering.
    cs.jpg

  2. #2
    slip tenons. or dowels will be fine as well. In fact, these may be preferable to sliding dovetails as the they will provide mechanical resistance at the bottom of the stem, unlike a sliding dovetail.

  3. #3
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    I tried a sliding dovetail once years ago and I failed miserably. Admittedly, I am far more proficient than I was then, but, it still scares me to think about trying one.

  4. #4
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    Alternative opinion....no, not really, anything else is a compromise. At some level it's about what you trust more, wood or glue to last longer. Given the delicate nature of that type of table I'm thinking the dovetail is really the most appropriate thing available. And if you have the skills to turn the post and shape the curved legs, what's a few routed dovetails? Not by far IMO the hardest part of that piece.

  5. #5
    I built a similar table (plant stand really). I just used a regular mortise/tenon joint. It is still standing!

    Tony

  6. #6
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    The reason I'm asking is because several of my high school students build these tables and fail at the sliding dovetail portion of the project. I end up having to redo it for them and am looking for an alternative for those who don't have the hand eye coordination for it.

  7. #7
    Do you let them use a router?

  8. #8
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    Only a table mounted router. We have 2 New Yankee Workshop style router tables with Woodpecker lifts in them.

  9. #9
    I would cut those dovetail sockets on the Router Boss using a shop-made "sugar tong vise" to hold the work. I cut the flats for the shoulders of the legs to come up against and then switch to the dovetail bit to cut the socket. Layout is simply three index marks 120 degrees apart on the work and one mark on the vise.

    I don't see any reason you couldn't make a work holder to use on the router table, though, which would allow your students to do basically the same thing.
    Last edited by Dave Richards; 10-17-2014 at 5:00 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin Davis View Post
    The reason I'm asking is because several of my high school students build these tables and fail at the sliding dovetail portion of the project. I end up having to redo it for them and am looking for an alternative for those who don't have the hand eye coordination for it.
    Check the "New Yankee Workshop", Norm made a nifty jig to precisely cut the sliding dovetails.
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  11. #11
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    Darrin, there may be other ways to do it, but the advantage to the sliding dovetail that is the usual and customary method for this type of table is strength. It's not that difficult to do, either, as you build a jig to cut the female side in the candle stand base (it can be free standing or done on the lathe...my jig was build for the latter) and just run the router down the three center lines twice...the first pass with a straight bit to get the majority of the material and the second with the dovetail bit to get the finalized undercuts. The legs are done on the router table and you generally mill some scrap to zero in on the exact height setting for the bit for a snug, but sliding contour. This joinery, combined with proper grain orientation on the legs works well. BTW, you need to mill the dovetails before you taper the legs which are typically 3/4" thick at the top where the dovetail is and taper to 1/2" at the floor.

    I have built several of these candle stands (FW version) and the jig(s) just keep delivering consistent results.

    You "could" use a similar technique to use simple tenons (loose or otherwise) but it's the same steps and will ultimately not be quite as strong as the interlocking nature of the sliding dovetails combined with glue.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  12. #12
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    I'm with Peter and Jim... dovetailing isn't the only method to attach the legs, but it is (IMO) the best method. Even so, these joints are often reinforced, initially or eventually, with a metal "spider" at the bottom of the column, which totally ties in all the legs to the column.

    Prashun, I'm not sure what you mean by, "[tenons or dowels] will provide mechanical resistance at the bottom of the stem, unlike a sliding dovetail."

  13. #13
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    I looked for an alternative too, before I bit the bullet and did the dovetails. Cutting the mortises with a router jig on an indexing lathe is what I did. Cut tenons before cutting out legs from your stock. I made the spider out of scrap wood.

  14. #14
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    Why not a simple mortise and tenon, with a pocket screw hidden below?

    If you can wedge the tenon in place, it should be plenty strong.
    If only the center of the tenon sees glue, it should stay centered.

    Refer to Ian Kirby's drawing of tenon varietals, in the link below.
    I would think that some variant of a "fox tail wedge" would be within
    the range of your students' skill set.

    http://www.woodworking.com/ww/Articl...ions-7614.aspx

  15. #15
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    Jim,

    Even Kirby doesn't think the fox tail wedged tenon is very practical for furniture, and for something like this piece, where the tenons would necessarily be quite short, I just can't see it working very well, and it wouldn't be at all easy to bring wedged tenon joints home given the shape of the legs.

    Dovetailing can be made easier by cutting the recesses while the work is on the lathe as Jim details, then using the same dovetail bit on the router table to shape the tenons, approaching final fit little by little. You can get a very precise fit this way.

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