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Thread: Alternative to Dovetailing

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Drew View Post
    Jim,

    Even Kirby doesn't think the fox tail wedged tenon is very practical for furniture, and for something like this piece, where the tenons would necessarily be quite short, I just can't see it working very well, and it wouldn't be at all easy to bring wedged tenon joints home given the shape of the legs.
    It's a student piece, not a museum reproduction.
    The OP asked for practical alternatives that beginners could manage.

    Balancing a router atop a lathe,
    that's not for newbies.

    Would a foxed tenon last forever?
    Not likely.

    Could it be cut and assembled tightly by a novice woodworker with basic tools?
    No doubt.

  2. #17
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    Sam Maloof used two dowels in places (stress positions) that I would not but, his stuff holds up pretty well so, what do I know ? The challenge you have is the delicate scale, therefor the sliding tenon. I use sliding tenons in such situations but, I would not want to teach someone else to do it so kudos to you for that. I think a floating tenon would be my next guess (and I would walk away from the sliding tenon reluctantly for this as you can maximize your surface contact and control your grain direction. There are as many opinions as woodworkers on something like this. I hope one of them helps.
    Last edited by glenn bradley; 10-20-2014 at 8:40 AM.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Matthews View Post
    It's a student piece, not a museum reproduction.
    The OP asked for practical alternatives that beginners could manage.

    Balancing a router atop a lathe,
    that's not for newbies.

    Would a foxed tenon last forever?
    Not likely.

    Could it be cut and assembled tightly by a novice woodworker with basic tools?
    No doubt.
    Let's agree to disagree, then:

    The router and lathe method requires a jig which makes the cut reasonably straightforward to do accurately, and for a project involving multiples (such as with student projects) making the jig is well worth the time.

    A well-constructed fox wedged tenon is an excellent joint that can last a very long time in an appropriate application.

    Constructing one well is the hard part, noted by Ian Kirby ("I have made many fox tail joints but never used one in furniture. You only get one shot at glue-up.") The mortise has to be undercut so that it's longer at the bottom than at the mouth, but only by the precise amount that the tenon will expand as the wedges are forced into the slots, and the wedges have to be extremely exact in both angle and length so that they expand the tenon precisely and, critically, don't bottom out before the joint is all the way home (before the shoulders contact). And, most importantly, there's no way to test fit the joint -- once it's in, glue or no glue, it's not coming out again, so if you've got a poor fit that's what you're stuck with.

    I think it might be a fun joint for somewhat advanced students to experiment with, but not in this application.

  4. #19
    If this is a teaching project, then the dovetails may be the very thing that defines this project, and cheating on it may not be in the spirit of the class.

    However, if this is not a concern, then I say, "it's a CANDLE STAND"! Dowels, dovetails, slip tenons will ALL be fine. I built a similar table and used tiny-splined butt joints when I was starting out. I'm surprised at how strong it is, but then, nobody's sitting on it.

    Unless this is a heavily used piece, then over-engineering it is just not functionally necessary.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Matthews View Post
    I
    Balancing a router atop a lathe,
    that's not for newbies.
    Interestingly, it's remarkably easy...I'd allow my teenage daughters who are not woodworkers to do it. You make a jig that sits on the lathe bed (indexed to the slot in the bed) and surrounds the workpiece. The router sits on top of the jig and a bushing keeps it centered over the line. It's extremely stable, safe and accurate.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenn bradley View Post
    (and I would walk away from the sliding tenon reluctantly for this as you can maximize your surface contact and control your grain direction.
    +1 on this - the reason behind my suggestion.

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