Stanley Bedrock 4-1/2 Type 1

[Logan Wittmer]

Found a Bedrock 4-1/2 today. Picked it up for $45, and it looks to be in pretty good condition - The horn on the tote is broke, but other than that japanning is around 85-90% there, nice camber on the blade still, and it is sharp. When I was inspecting it a bit closer at home, it appears that the very last patent date was ground off - It looked like someone did it with a mill, but upon futher research, it sounds like that was a characteristic of a type 1 bedrock. If that is the case, Is there much value in a 4-1/2 type 1? I searched ebay a bit and couldnt find much in the sold section for a 4-1/2.

[David Weaver]

There is a at least one collector on this board, but bedrocks in general are more valuable (unless they are in perfect condition) if they have flat top sides.

Replace your handle with one from another stanley plane from the same era, there's no sense in having an uncommon plane with handle that has the horn broken off (or if you have a common plane like a 5 with a nice rosewood handle, swap it out).

If it's in good shape with the original lever cap and makes a good user, you did just fine at $45. I defer to the collectors on actual value, but it's not something I've run across as a user and been shocked away from (there are certain things that cause me to have a lurch, like 608 flat side bedrocks and 4 1/2s that make me think no way as a user. I only buy planes like that if they have cosmetic damage and a price to match it).

[Jim Koepke]

Totes are easy to repair if you have some spare rosewood.

I am not a big fan of Bedrocks, but my Stanley/Bailey #4-1/2 gets used often.

Sounds like a good score. Can you post images?

jtk

[Mel Miller]

Sounds like a good buy at $45. Post some pictures so we can determine just what it is. Type 1 Bedrock planes are numbered like the Stanley planes. They didn't start with the 60X numbers until later.

[Stew Denton]

Hi Logan,

The 604 1/2s are more pricy than the more common Bedrocks. I am not a collector, but look at a lot of Bedrocks on ebay. If your bedrock is in nice shape I would say that it would sell for at least $150. If it was restored to look really nice with a good original replacement tote, it would likely sell for more than that. We are talking about user grade planes here.

In my view, just based on ebay prices, based on the condition you describe, anything under $120 would be a very good buy.

I think a true collector grade would have to be in beautiful original condition, and I suspect it would go for quite a bit more, but hopefully a collector can chime in on that.

Stew

[Moses Yoder]

THe early types of bedrocks are not nearly as sought after as say a type one Bailey pattern. Not sure why. Still as mentioned, the 604-1/2 is worth some money and is a great user plane.

[don wilwol]

Either way it's a nice find at a very nice price. Almost any good 4 1\2 size brings a good price. They are a good plane and were not made in the numbers of a #4.

Its got some collector value, but not like the very early baileys. I still think if its in good shape to the right guy you could be in the $200 range. IMO.

[Logan Wittmer]

Thanks Guys - In the middle of Iowa, it is fairly uncommon to find a bedrock style - Ive seen one other (flat top #4 that had the sole cracked and braized). I have been looking for a #4-1/2 so I figured it wasnt a bad pick up. Here is a few photos.

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[bridger berdel]

you can go ahead and use it with the broken horn, but if it were mine I'd take care of that.

[Brian Hale]

Don't bedrocks have pins holding the frog down instead of screws or am i about to learn something

Brian

[don wilwol]

Bedrocks before 1911 had screws. The pins came about in 1911, along with the flat sides.

[Brian Hale]

Thanks Don......

[Mike Holbrook]

Could someone have cut the top of that horn off? I see a good many plane horns like that. I formulated the opinion that some people have/had a problem with the blade lever being so close to the horn so they just trim the horn down. I suppose that if one were to drop the plane the end of the horn could easily get broken that way too. It just does not seem likely that particular "damage" would be a result of use/wear & tear.

I have been thinking about trying out a Bedrock plane. I like the feel of Veritas BU planes with their low center of gravity and I am guessing the Bedrocks would be closer in feel to the BU planes. I think the Square topped models are the more poplar users? I did a little reading from a link on these pages and I believe there were some significant feature changes. I'm just not sure how those features play out in terms of a user plane? I was thinking maybe 4 1/2 or 5 1/2 as I do not have either model in a Stanely/Bailey and if one decides to go heavy why not go all the way? For some jobs I like a lighter plane but for tough woods I find extra weight can be helpful. My issue has been that prices for Bedrocks often seem to approach prices for a new Veritas plane.

[Stew Denton]

Hi Mike,

The Bedrocks are perhaps slightly less heavy than the Baileys, and the weights listed on the "Blood and Gore" website for Stanley planes shows that, but the differences listed are not very significant. For practical purposes, I don't think my 605 Bedrock flat side feels any different from my #5 type 12 Bailey.

Thus, if you are looking for a low center of gravity plane, and much prefer the BU to a Bailey, then I don't think the Bedrock is what you are looking for, because in my opinion, the Bedrock feels much like the Bailey.

However, I don't own a BU plane, except for a block plane, so can't compare my Bedrocks to any of the BU planes, so I am looking forward to more input from guys who use both types.

I have seen several planes with the tip of the tote broken off, both with the plane in hand, and also by looking at photos on Ebay. (In fact I own a few.) All of the ones I have looked at clearly have the horn broken off instead of cut off. Thus, I think the broken horns are the result of being dropped. If you just wanted to shorten the horn, a neat and rounded tote would be the results. The ones I have looked at clearly have the tips showing splits and breaks, not saw and sanded marks.

Stew

[Stew Denton]

Hi Mike,

The flat top Bedrocks have two pins that hold the frog in place instead of two machine screws. The pins have cone shaped holes in the sides, which two machine screws with cone shaped tips which fit into the cone shaped holes. These act to cam the pins down thus locking the frog in place much like the machine screws do on a Bailey type or on the earlier Bedrocks.

The advantage of this system is that the cone tipped machine screws thread into the back of the bed of the plane that the frog seats against, and can be adjusted without taking the lever cap, iron, and chip breaker off of the frog, and thus the position of the cutting edge can be adjusted without taking the plane apart. Thus, you can see immediately where you have adjusted the cutter to, and with no disassembly.

This was deemed a major advance, and is a nice feature. Consequently the flat side Bedrocks typically sell for a bit more money than do the round side Bedrocks, as the round side Bedrocks lack this feature.

I don't personally do a lot of adjusting on planes, so this is not a big selling point for me. However, I would like to eventually have a tool chest that I can carry with me on carpentry projects. With this sort of box, heavy weight is a definite problem, so I want tools that are flexible and have many uses, as much as is possible. For that reason, I have thought about a 606 Bedrock as one of 2 bench planes for the tool chest. For the 606 it would be useful to have more than one iron/chip breaker set up in the box, already sharpened and ready to go. With different iron set ups, the 606 could work as a short jointer plane, a fore plane, and with a straight iron could be used to trim large doors and other similar trimming and fitting tasks. The other bench plane in the box would probably be a #4 smoother of some type.

Thus the reason for the flat side, if you have to change iron/chip breaker combinations it would be nice to be able to quickly adjust the frog, depending on what iron you were using.

Regards,

Stew