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Thread: Toe Kick Detail with End Panel….

  1. #1
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    Toe Kick Detail with End Panel….

    48" wide bathroom vanity.....

    What is the norm here? Do I make the end panel match the cut out of the toe kick or do I just make it like one big 4 corner panel? I used a small door laying around to show what I mean in the picture.

    Also, what is the norm for getting the face frame overall width to match the ¾” thickness of the end panel? What I mean is, my frame is exactly 48” wide, and I held the box back from each end ¾” to allow for the thickness of the end panel, but no matter how careful and exact you are in cutting and assembly, the ¾” isn’t exact.

    My thought here was, since I can plane the wood down for the end panel to any thickness, was to actually go a little under ¾”, and during mock up, clamp the face frame in place and use a flush trim bit to get the face frame exactly flush with the end panel, but then I thought all of this will be done before finishing, and will it match up after finishing????


    20141019_135531.jpeg20141019_140517.jpeg20141019_140633.jpg

  2. #2
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    For a vanity I would have run the two stiles on the FF to the floor, kept he bottom rail on the end panel at the elevation of the bottom rail on the FF, so the corner looks like furniture, the built a ladder toe kick. (Separate platform for the cabinet to sit on) with setbacks on All three sides for toe space. For the end panel to frame connection I would include 1/4" dead space behind the panels, run a rabbit or miter in the stiles of the FF to accept the panel (rabbit for paint grade, miter for stain grade). You can then make 1/4" pads to back up the end panel and these pads can be adjusted for an exact fit, never try to hit The width exactly over that distance, rarely works and is Unadvisable ime.

  3. #3
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    Here's how I do it.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    • File Type: jpg 1.jpg (94.0 KB, 101 views)
    Scott Vroom

    I started with absolutely nothing. Now, thanks to years of hard work, careful planning, and perseverance, I find I still have most of it left.

  4. #4
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    On my kitchen, I just made all the toekick material 5/8 to get a step detail. The commercial stuff in my new house is 1/4" MDF, but there is a "sub-kick" of ply the cabinets I made didn't have to back it up.


  5. #5
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    @ Scott - mind sharing the technique/construction detail for getting your corner so nicely even and lined up?

    Looks good!! With pre-finished ply, and having to finish the frames then mount them, I am wondering which technique is best.

    I like Peter's idea of using 1/4" strips to fir out the backing, then I can adjust the thickness of the strips. That means though making 1/2" thick end panels, which I dont mind, but I was hoping for a way to get around without changing setup.

    For the bathroom vanity I am ok with doing that, for teh kitchen run, I will design in 3/4" thick end panels with a 1/4" backer.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Jump View Post
    @ Scott - mind sharing the technique/construction detail for getting your corner so nicely even and lined up?

    Looks good!! With pre-finished ply, and having to finish the frames then mount them, I am wondering which technique is best.

    I like Peter's idea of using 1/4" strips to fir out the backing, then I can adjust the thickness of the strips. That means though making 1/2" thick end panels, which I dont mind, but I was hoping for a way to get around without changing setup.

    For the bathroom vanity I am ok with doing that, for teh kitchen run, I will design in 3/4" thick end panels with a 1/4" backer.
    I use a modified Sommerfeld method on my cabs: backside of face frames are grooved to received tongued edges of the plywood carcass sides, bottom, stretcher tops. I also add a 1/4" dado to the cab sides/bottom to receive a 1/4" ply back.

    I build face frames first, unfinished. Then assemble carcass pieces to FF and each other using glue and clamps.

    On the box pictured I used a 1-17/32 wide left side face frame, FF flush with the 3/4" carcass inside. This left 25/32 of face frame protruding past the plywood on the left side, with a 1/4" dado groove on the back to receive the applied finished side panel, which has a 1/4" tongue that fits in the FF groove. Sand and finish...done. Bottom kick platform added later using pocket screws/glue. I used the same 3/4" QSWO as the FF's for the kick plate, applied after cab installation.

    I never pre-spray face frames even though I typically use pre-finished play. I assemble everything then sand and spray face frames and carcass. There is no problem spraying a coat over finished ply; I prefer finished ply because I avoid the raised grain and sanding I'd get with unfinished ply.
    Scott Vroom

    I started with absolutely nothing. Now, thanks to years of hard work, careful planning, and perseverance, I find I still have most of it left.

  7. #7
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    I use a block plane on the back side of the FF and the front of the end panel to chamfer the but joint creating a softened "V" groove. It looks nice and the end panel doesn't have to be perfectly flush with the FF. Anytime I have an exposed end where a panel is needed I run the end stile to the floor. Here's an example of an upper cabinet that will "sit" on the countertop.

    Knotty Alder (11).jpg

    You can see the "V" groove where the end panel meets the back of the FF.
    -Lud

  8. #8
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    Scott - so you assemble, using pre-finished ply, assume mask off some/most of the ply, finish the face frames, end panels without getting stain on the ply (which should easily wipe off is so) then spray your top coat over everything?

    My concern is using either my SW Kem Aqua Plus or General Clear over the ply, that I don't know what that clear is.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Jump View Post
    Scott - so you assemble, using pre-finished ply, assume mask off some/most of the ply, finish the face frames, end panels without getting stain on the ply (which should easily wipe off is so) then spray your top coat over everything?

    My concern is using either my SW Kem Aqua Plus or General Clear over the ply, that I don't know what that clear is.
    Justin, no I don't mask off the ply...there is no need. I spray the entire cabinet face frame and interior with the 1/4" back removed....this prevents blow back and corner buildup. I use General Finishes Enduro clear poly on my cabs, which General says is approved to go over most solvent and water based topcoats. My plywood supplier uses a WB poly-acrylic on his pre-finished.
    Scott Vroom

    I started with absolutely nothing. Now, thanks to years of hard work, careful planning, and perseverance, I find I still have most of it left.

  10. #10
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    So when do you "stain" the face frames and end panels? After you attach them to the carcass?

    I assume then you are just super careful when applying stain to the face frame near the pre-finished ply.....

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Jump View Post
    @ Scott - mind sharing the technique/construction detail for getting your corner so nicely even and lined up?

    Looks good!! With pre-finished ply, and having to finish the frames then mount them, I am wondering which technique is best.

    I like Peter's idea of using 1/4" strips to fir out the backing, then I can adjust the thickness of the strips. That means though making 1/2" thick end panels, which I dont mind, but I was hoping for a way to get around without changing setup.

    For the bathroom vanity I am ok with doing that, for teh kitchen run, I will design in 3/4" thick end panels with a 1/4" backer.
    the method I described really has to be built into the design from the start, you have to run the frame past the case by your space plus the thickness of your end panel. I guess you might make a very skinny end panel, not sure 1/2" gets you a cope and stick panel of any depth of profile.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Jump View Post
    So when do you "stain" the face frames and end panels? After you attach them to the carcass?

    I assume then you are just super careful when applying stain to the face frame near the pre-finished ply.....
    Yes, I stain the FF after attached to carcass and no I'm not super careful. If you wipe on/off quickly the stain won't affect the pre-finished ply. If you're concerned about it then mask off the ply with 1" painters tape....but not necessary in my experience. Do an experiment with a scrap piece of pre-finished ply to see if it holds stain.
    Scott Vroom

    I started with absolutely nothing. Now, thanks to years of hard work, careful planning, and perseverance, I find I still have most of it left.

  13. #13
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    I see now....I see that approach if the ply wasnt pre-finished, I never thought about that method with pre-finished.

    Last question (hopefully) 0 when you spray the clear, do you make a point to put another coat of clear on the ply, or just let the overspray hit where it hits?

  14. #14
    Kitchen cabinet end.JPGVanity one.JPG
    Hare is another version. Extend the faceframe stile to the floor. Make a big cabinetdoor, preferably with a wide rail on the bottom, split into two panels if needed and miter, with spline , to the faceframe.
    TB

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bennett View Post
    Kitchen cabinet end.JPGVanity one.JPG
    Hare is another version. Extend the faceframe stile to the floor. Make a big cabinetdoor, preferably with a wide rail on the bottom, split into two panels if needed and miter, with spline , to the faceframe.

    Thomas, that design actually makes more sense for a bathroom vanity where a kick plate on the sides is probably not needed. Very nice looking piece.
    Scott Vroom

    I started with absolutely nothing. Now, thanks to years of hard work, careful planning, and perseverance, I find I still have most of it left.

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