Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 31

Thread: Jointer Planes

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Milton, GA
    Posts
    3,213
    Blog Entries
    1

    Jointer Planes

    I have been thinking about a Jointer plane for some time now. I have taken my time on buying this plane because I plan to buy a quality plane. I believe this is a tool that may benefit from more in terms of manufacturing precision and features. I have some experience now with BU/LA, older Stanley and wood planes and find that I like each type in certain situations. My go to planes are the Veritas BU models. I have had a LA Jack and Standard LA Block for quite a few years now. Recently I purchased a BUS and like it maybe even more than the other two. I have ventured off into the BD planes recently having acquired Stanley #3, #4, #5, #6 planes. I like these planes for rougher work or work that may require the tool being used for longer periods of time. The Stanley planes are a little lighter, especially since I bought mostly corrugated bottoms.

    My preference for the BU planes has to do with three main features that I have found beneficial or preferable. I like the low center of gravity and weight of these planes, particularly for tougher woods or grain patterns. I prefer the Veritas blade adjustment system used on all the BU models. I like the screws that hold the blade roughly in place, making it easier to return a freshly sharpened blade or substitute a different blade. I like the simplicity of the mouth adjustment system on these planes, although it may not be necessary for rougher work. I appreciate the accuracy with which these planes are manufactured and the durability of the materials used.

    Of course there are BD Veritas planes that incorporate some of the same features used in the BU planes. I was stuck between the Veritas Fore plane and the Veritas Jointer plane for a while. I finally decided to buy a Stanley #6 instead of a Veritas Fore plane and use the extra money for an actual Jointer plane later on. I imagine it sounds like the decision is made and I should just buy the Veritas BU Jointer already.

    Then LV had to throw the new custom planes into the mix. My first impression was that the Custom jointer was a little pricey and too heavy at 8lbs 9ozs vs 7lbs 8ozs for the BU. Lately I have been noticing features on the newer planes that may incorporate some of the benefits I find for BU planes into a BD plane. Specifically, the custom plane appears to be designed with a shorter frog and a blade that resembles a BU or Japanese plane balde. It appears that the weight distribution of the new custom planes is oriented more like a BU plane. I also find it interesting that the custom planes offer interchangeable frogs for just a little more than buying multiple blades for a BU plane.

    So do I wait for Derek to review the new plane? I'm sure I can hobble along with my current planes until then. I am wondering if others see the similarities between the LV BU and custom planes I do? Should we be surprised that LV has chosen to follow a successful theme? So now we can swap out frogs and or blades to "customize" our planes performance, cool, and smart marketing I'm thinking.
    Last edited by Mike Holbrook; 10-20-2014 at 12:29 PM.

  2. #2
    The custom planes feel a lot like the BU planes. If you like the feel of the BU planes, and the orientation of the mouth (where it's located, low center of gravity), and you want a BD plane, then they are a good choice. If you really like the BU format a lot, I can't see a good reason to not just go with that.

  3. #3
    You should purchase a Veritas BU jointer. Once you get it and review it, I'll decide whether I should get one. Am in the same exact boat as you. I may also make one for kicks, but I like the Veritas offering because it uses the same blades as my BU jack. I am finding good reasons to maintain multiple blades at different grinds.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    9,467
    I have been spending time exploring the new LV Custom BD Jointer in a number of configurations. Fascinating!

    There is a 50 degree frog, which can be used with- or without a chip breaker. There is a 40 degree frog, and ditto. (One of the aspects that interested me was to see how well the jointer would control tear out in reversing grain with the latter). There are standard and Stanley-type handles, tall and short knobs.

    At some stage I will write up my observations to act as a guide for those wanting to understand the various options.

    What I will say for now is that the BD and BU jointers initially felt very different in the hand. The BU jointer is an incredibly easy plane to use as it has such a low centre of gravity, and it sucks down onto the wood. The BD jointer has a medium centre of gravity, feels solid and offers more feedback that I recall from my Stanley #7. Both the BU and BD planes feel taut and balanced.

    Below is the LA Jointer with a Bill Rittner replacement handle and knob. The BD Jointer has the LV Stanley-type handle ...



    Both jointers are 22" long, which is the same as a #7. The BU has its mouth further back than a #7, and is in fact where one would find the mouth of a #8. The BD jointer is configured as per the #7 - so is not the same as the BU.

    I'm not going to write much more at this stage other than to suggest that you try, if you can, using the BD with the standard (more upright) handle. It will surprise you how right it feels. The Stanley-type handle may better suit the shorter smoothers. Your mileage may vary, however.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Longview WA
    Posts
    27,347
    Blog Entries
    1
    Mike,

    Other than a difference in size the #6 Stanley/Bailey should give you a good feel for how a jointer of the Stanley variety will work.

    Your LA jack vs the #5 would also be planes to compare. To me the difference centers on the end grain with the LA jack being the clear winner.

    Clearly my choice doesn't reflect anything but my own likes and dislikes. For all that has been done in my shop the old rust finds have worked very well.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    866
    If you prefer BD then go that route, if BU then go that route.

    That said, I have the BU jointer and use it more than either the jack or the smoother. In particular, I like to fence it and use it to finish an edge before edge gluing. You will lose some of the interchangeability advantages by going the BD route. Despite the foregoing, I'd suggest waiting to physically handle them if possible or waiting for Derek if not. Can't wrong with either choice.

  7. #7
    Derek, I'm confused by what you mean when you say that there is "more feedback". Can you describe that? Do you mean that it feels more direct or solid?

    (for reference, I'd normally say a lighter plane has more feedback unless it's sloppily put together.)

    The only one I've gotten to try is the 5 1/2 sized plane, so it sounds like the relative comparison to the stanleys may not be the same across all of the planes.

    Being such a fanatic for the stanley bailey design, the custom plane feels very different to me, but it's very solid like all of the modern premium planes. I'd say from what I can recall of the BU planes it feels like 90% LV and 10% continental plane, and not a lot like a stanley. The classic profile handle is a bit more upright even than a stanley handle.

    Setting the cap iron is a bit different, too, but once you get used to it it's quick. I blued the cap iron, though, so I could see it more easily. There are no dull looking bits and no curved bits on it and it can be hard to see it to set it (marker would be fine, though, it's not necessary to use blue).

    I'm kind of surprised that after the rollout there really hasn't been much talk.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    9,467
    Derek, I'm confused by what you mean when you say that there is "more feedback". Can you describe that? Do you mean that it feels more direct or solid?
    Hi David

    To understand the feedback from the BU jointer you need to imagine a comparison between walking in a pair of slippers and then in a pair of shoes. The slippers are thin and your feet are more sensitive to the surface you are walking upon. Go from a BU Jointer to a high sided woody, and you will realise that the planes offer very different experiences of planing/ jointing. The feedback from the BU jointer has little to do with the mass of the plane - instead it seems as if it has more to do with transmission of vibration through the plane's body. Another analogy - possibly a better one - is the feedback one gets from a card scraper versus a scraper plane. The card scraper just feels more alive and immediate.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  9. #9
    OK, I follow that with wooden planes (especially something like beech, which warren refers to as being a dead wood). The stanley planes, though, seem to feel thinner to me, but offer plenty of feedback. The premium planes feel more solid, like a single unit, and I don't feel quite as much feedback - which may be due to weight. It's maybe more like a fundamental feel, though.

    When I think of a heavier plane, I think of something like an infill, that is also solid, but offers little feedback in thinner shavings. The lack of feedback isn't necessarily from the infill, though, it's the weight. They are sort of between woodies and BUs in that the weight is there and they are authoritative, but they also have a higher center of gravity.

    I'm wondering if what you're talking about as feel has more to do with the linearity of the force from the BU planes - more push and less down.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Longview WA
    Posts
    27,347
    Blog Entries
    1
    I'm kind of surprised that after the rollout there really hasn't been much talk.
    People are getting in the holiday mode. After Christmas there should be a few brags on what was under the tree. Then there will be those who use their Christmas money and gift certificates to pull the trigger on a new tool.

    For me, there are only so many ways a shaving coming of a piece of wood can feel different. For my pleasure my old Bailey style planes feel just fine.

    As example my various #3 size planes have slightly different feels when in use. The Dunlap, by Millers Falls, feels the lightest and the action of the blade slicing wood feels a little on the 'flimsy' side. The K3, by Stanley, is of the early Bedrock design and has a solid feel when making shavings. The type 13 Bailey style plane only feels a little less solid than the Bedrock design. Most likely this is due to the frog mating the base. The Bedrock design is such that it dampens most of the resonate vibrations in action.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  11. #11
    Derek, David, if you could have just one jointer plane, which would it be? Jim, I know your answer.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Milton, GA
    Posts
    3,213
    Blog Entries
    1
    Yea, we drew Derek out a little at least ;-) I could not help but notice that the fence for the BD is more like Derek suggests as an even better option for the BU plane, in his review. Good info, on the handles Derek and David. Keep working on Derek I know there is more info. to be had.

    Prashun, no you jump first so I have the advantage of hind sight ;-) I am still reviewing the Stanley planes I am struggling to get properly set up. I probably want make a decision on a jointer until I get a little more experience with the Stanley planes. I have past negative experience to overcome in regard to the Stanley planes, dating back to newer Record & Paragon planes. Also Prashun I am still working on my 26" wood jointer. Getting a blade, wedge and gripping set up that I am happy with is taking quite a while.

    Like Curt my favorite plane was a jointer, at least until I bought better planes. The original guy I bought tools from at Highland Woodworking (back when it was Highland Hardware) liked a jointer as his main plane over a #5. I think I inherited his prejudice in that regard.

  13. #13
    I was planning to build a wood one myself. But I have a dining room table project coming up that is pushing the issue faster than I'd be able to build/perfect a good wood jointer.

    I honestly like the feel of bevel down planes a little better than the BU's. But I think I love the easy-in-easy out of the BU blades even better... It encourages me to sharpen more often which ultimately leads to my best results.

    I should probably just hold out for a used bedrock jointer. I have a Hock blade/chip breaker that's made my untuned Bailey's sows ear into a passable (not quite silk) purse. I'm sure it'd do well in a more worthy plane.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Prashun Patel View Post
    Derek, David, if you could have just one jointer plane, which would it be? Jim, I know your answer.
    I could really get used to any of them, I guess. If I could get lucky enough to have a stanley 7 that was dead square and had patina on it with no rust, and no use on the iron, that would be ideal.

    I take a heavy shaving any time I can because I'm usually working from rough and I don't worry about surface quality (other than minimizing tearout) until smoothing, and I've come to realize that there are not that many people working like that.

    I will always have at least two jointers, a stanley 7 type of some brand (right now I have a millers falls 22) and the wooden one I just made - unless I make a better one.

    (but I think if you stuck me with any jointer, I could get along fine as long as I didn't get stuck with one where the mouth is higher than the ends of the jointer and I have no way to correct it - it really doesn't matter much)

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    866
    I do have the BU jointer along with the BUS and LA Jack. I am primarily a power tool user. I got the jointer when it first came out about 8 years ago and recently the need came up to use it. Took it out, put a sharp blade from the LA Jack, set up the fence, tried it on scrap, adjusted the fence and the blade and in less than 2 minutes I was getting a perfect 90 degree edge with no tear out. I call that top notch performance. I do think it is a fair point to compare with the BD version, but given that you have the other two that share the same blade, BU may be a good option unless of course you want to have both

    I am also curious about the new custom planes and will likely get one soon, after I see some reviews out there. I am thinking abut the #4 size.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •