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Thread: Knowing what you know now about Lasers...

  1. #1

    Knowing what you know now about Lasers...

    What laser would you select if you were a new and needed some help/tech support along the way. I'm looking at doing glass, acrylic, rubber stamps, etc. for a gift business and really curious about your thoughts with so much experience in the forum. A combination of tech support, quality of product, and cost effectiveness. Your top 3 would be appreciated with any candid thoughts you'd like to share. Thanks. Thinking at least 60W with rotary.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Bob,

    Tough question given your info. Do you have a budget that is limiting you? Dimensional size requirements? Throughput requirements? (by that I mean do you need to rip the work out or can you tootle along) If production speed is your goal are you going to be engraving mostly or cutting? You already told us what you are thinking of for power.

    For myself. If my sweetie had bought the winning lottery ticket like I asked her to do I would have been tickled with a Trotec, and right after that ULS and Epilog. They all have excellent tech support and the machines are excellent. And we have a ton of very knowledgeable folks on the forum who can help you as well.

    Assuming my sweetie did buy a lottery ticket but didn't hit the top jackpot I would next choose something like a Rabbit. Ray Scott supports his users very well and is a US based supplier of these Chinese made machines, with the parts and expertise to support you.

    But, since my sweetie did not buy that winning ticket (yet?) I ordered direct from China. When it arrives I will regale everyone with the tales of the purchase and its use. But for now I am simply in the "fingers are crossed" phase of the purchase.

    Seriously though, if you could take some time to answer some of the questions I posed above that would help folks answer you better.

    Dave
    900x600 80watt EFR Tube laser from Liaocheng Ray Fine Tech LTD. Also a 900x600 2.5kw spindle CNC from Ray Fine. And my main tool, a well used and loved Jet 1642 Woodlathe with an outboard toolrest that helps me work from 36 inch diameters down to reallllllly tiny stuff.

  3. #3
    I'll say this, I've demo'd Epilog, ULS, and Trotec the past month+ and I don't feel any closer to making a decision. All have positives and negatives. I may or may not write something up when we decide, probably won't.

    The reality is, you can't go wrong with any of the machines from what I can tell.
    Equipment: IS400, IS6000, VLS 6.60, LS100, HP4550, Ricoh GX e3300n, Hotronix STX20
    Software: Adobe Suite & Gravostyle 5
    Business: Trophy, Awards and Engraving

  4. #4
    Thanks David and Ross. Ross, I'm going to do the same and then I think it will come down to customer service reputation with the local distributors. I need what we used to call a "sustaining resource", or someone who brings value to the sale that transcends the value of the machine alone. Someone who can be a resource and guide you on the "how to's" after you've made the purchase. Any other thoughts?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob WrightNC View Post
    I think it will come down to customer service reputation with the local distributors. I need what we used to call a "sustaining resource", or someone who brings value to the sale that transcends the value of the machine alone. Someone who can be a resource and guide you on the "how to's" after you've made the purchase. Any other thoughts?
    Good luck with that, especially in the area you are located in. The reality is once they sell you a machine, you are going to be directed to the tech support line at each one's facility. You're not going to call your sales rep and get an answer when your machine is doing something odd or you can't figure it out. They might take a call or two out of kindness, but after that, they will refer you to tech support every time. I've said it in a number of posts on here before. The rep's play a VERY small role in anything, other than getting your check. There are a few exceptions, like Roy Brewer, but in your area, you aren't going to get anything spectacular. Buy the machine that does what you want it to do and don't worry about any "special relationships" where someone "might" be able to help you. Most all reps are traveling daily, so if you have an issue, you'll likely get voicemail. In the end, you could call tech support and get the answer and be back running.

    In the beginning, I put a lot of weight on the sales rep. 8 years later, I couldn't care less who's selling me what. Just tell me the price, what the warranty is, what the tech support hours and policy are, and we're set.
    Lasers : Trotec Speedy 300 75W, Trotec Speedy 300 80W, Galvo Fiber Laser 20W
    Printers : Mimaki UJF-6042 UV Flatbed Printer , HP Designjet L26500 61" Wide Format Latex Printer, Summa S140-T 48" Vinyl Plotter
    Router : ShopBot 48" x 96" CNC Router Rotary Engravers : (2) Xenetech XOT 16 x 25 Rotary Engravers

    Real name Steve but that name was taken on the forum. Used Middle name. Call me Steve or Scott, doesn't matter.

  6. #6
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    Where are you located Bob?

    I am in Seattle if you are nearby. The Epilog sales person here was terrific and folks I have spoken with have really appreciated him after the sales.
    Folks were neutral about the ULS sales person.
    I didnt pursue Trotec at all since they were quite far from me and of the 3 machines priced far beyond what was already not doable for me.

    Not sure how to advise you other than to call nearby folks with machines and see what they think. A sales person should be able to give you the names of people with their machines. Or you could post something here and give a shout to users in your area for feedback. If I read the forum right, support from the sales offices after the sale is hit or miss. Some are terrific, some won't acknowledge your existence after the product is delivered.
    900x600 80watt EFR Tube laser from Liaocheng Ray Fine Tech LTD. Also a 900x600 2.5kw spindle CNC from Ray Fine. And my main tool, a well used and loved Jet 1642 Woodlathe with an outboard toolrest that helps me work from 36 inch diameters down to reallllllly tiny stuff.

  7. #7
    Dave, I think he's in NC based on his name "Bob WrightNC", but I could be wrong. If so, then I'm in his territory, which is why I said what I said.

    Think of it like a car. You buy a car from the sales person. If your wipers quit working, you don't take the car back to the sales person. If you did, he'd tell you to take it to the service department. He might smile, pour you a cup of coffee while you wait, but in the end, he's meaningless in the transaction after the sale.

    There are a handful of exceptions out there, but if Bob is in NC, then he's not in one of those areas, in my opinion.
    Lasers : Trotec Speedy 300 75W, Trotec Speedy 300 80W, Galvo Fiber Laser 20W
    Printers : Mimaki UJF-6042 UV Flatbed Printer , HP Designjet L26500 61" Wide Format Latex Printer, Summa S140-T 48" Vinyl Plotter
    Router : ShopBot 48" x 96" CNC Router Rotary Engravers : (2) Xenetech XOT 16 x 25 Rotary Engravers

    Real name Steve but that name was taken on the forum. Used Middle name. Call me Steve or Scott, doesn't matter.

  8. #8
    Most help comes via phone calls to the manufacturer, reps are a hit and miss. Phone support for the top three are good.

    If you decide on a Chinese laser do some searching on forums and find a brand that many are using, some forum, even
    here have a support thread just for certain brands.
    Martin Boekers

    1 - Epilog Radius 25watt laser 1998
    1 - Epilog Legend EXT36 75watt laser 2005
    1 - Epilog Legend EXT36 75watt laser 2007
    1 - Epilog Fusion M2 32 120watt laser with camera 2015
    2 - Geo Knight K20S 16x20 Heat Press
    Geo Knight K Mug Press,
    Ricoh GX-7000 Dye Sub Printer
    Zerox Phaser 6360 Laser Printer
    numerous other tools and implements
    of distruction/distraction!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    North Yorkshire, UK
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob WrightNC View Post
    I'm looking at doing glass, acrylic, rubber stamps, etc. for a gift business ........Thanks. Thinking at least 60W with rotary.
    Get a western made machine in that case, Chinese machines are great for cutting and ok at some other things, from the very limited detail you give - get a Trotec or similar.
    Regards, John
    60w EFI 6090 & 100w Z4 Reci 6090 G Weike Lasers, 4 X 4 CNC Router
    CLTT using Oki C822dn & Adkins Press
    Glass Sandblasting, Woodwork Shop, etc...
    V Carve Pro v8 & Photo V Carve, Lasercut 5.3, Corel Draw 2017 on Windows 7 and iMac (via Parallels), etc

  10. #10
    Scott, you got it, I'm in NC. If you know the area, then you know the Epilog guys and I've visited some with them but I think you've hit the nail on the head. Price, then tech support. We bought a large embroidery machine and exactly like you said Scott. We were completely on our own. Self taught after some very simple training from the company. Problem is, I don't have the time to devote to the trial and error of learning on your own and that's the rub. I need to get it going and for someone to shoot straight.

  11. #11
    Thanks John, that's where it appears to be heading. The issue is I see alot of folks that have machines that don't run and I think we know many things we'll do with it but not everything just yet. And it needs to run, that's for sure.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob WrightNC View Post
    Scott, you got it, I'm in NC. If you know the area, then you know the Epilog guys and I've visited some with them but I think you've hit the nail on the head. Price, then tech support. We bought a large embroidery machine and exactly like you said Scott. We were completely on our own. Self taught after some very simple training from the company. Problem is, I don't have the time to devote to the trial and error of learning on your own and that's the rub. I need to get it going and for someone to shoot straight.
    Bob, you're in the place where you'll get more help for free, 24 hours a day, than most any tech support, or sales rep will ever do. Pick the one that fits your budget and needs, come back here, ask for help and you'll be light years ahead of anything you'd get from most sales reps. I say that honestly. You won't beat the knowledge and help that's on this forum.

    Pick a machine I can help you with and buy me dinner at K&W and I'll come help you get it going
    Lasers : Trotec Speedy 300 75W, Trotec Speedy 300 80W, Galvo Fiber Laser 20W
    Printers : Mimaki UJF-6042 UV Flatbed Printer , HP Designjet L26500 61" Wide Format Latex Printer, Summa S140-T 48" Vinyl Plotter
    Router : ShopBot 48" x 96" CNC Router Rotary Engravers : (2) Xenetech XOT 16 x 25 Rotary Engravers

    Real name Steve but that name was taken on the forum. Used Middle name. Call me Steve or Scott, doesn't matter.

  13. #13
    After demoing machines, I find the sales reps more of a hindrance then a help on technical side of things. If you can get a factory rep to do the demo, it is beneficial but they are not production guys. They are definitely more aware of the various settings in the machines. The sales reps, really are limited from what I've encountered.

    Here is how I rank things at the moment:

    Software - ULS, Trotec, Epilog, Rayjet
    **None of the reps I've come across are talking about Epilog's new software**

    Machines - Trotec, Rayjet, ULS = Epilog

    Price - Rayjet, Trotec = ULS = Epilog

    Overall - Still haven't decided.

    Here is an example of why you need to demo machines or at least read the user manual. I engrave crystal awards using the center point as a guideline. The ULS and Trotec do things similarly. Import your artwork, move the head over, the artwork will snap to that point. The Epilog (print driver) you enter it as a center/center engraving, bring the head to the point, set it as the home, and it moves the head accordingly. The Rayjet software doesn't offer either. So now a feature I consider essential isn't available on a machine that on paper, looked the best value buy on the market.
    Equipment: IS400, IS6000, VLS 6.60, LS100, HP4550, Ricoh GX e3300n, Hotronix STX20
    Software: Adobe Suite & Gravostyle 5
    Business: Trophy, Awards and Engraving

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Hayes, Virginia
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    14,760
    Bob,

    If you decide to purchase a Trotec your in Don Mayhew's territory. Don is a great guy who knows the Trotec machines well. He spent two whole days with us when he delivered our machine and helped us tune the speed and power settings for every material type we were using at the time. I have to admit i have called Don on a couple occasions, he answered his phone and helped me with problems so he's not your average sales rep.
    If you need his phone number let me know.
    .

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Englewood, CO
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    483
    Quote Originally Posted by Ross Moshinsky View Post
    Here is how I rank things at the moment:

    Software - ULS, Trotec, Epilog, Rayjet
    **None of the reps I've come across are talking about Epilog's new software**

    Machines - Trotec, Rayjet, ULS = Epilog

    Price - Rayjet, Trotec = ULS = Epilog

    Overall - Still haven't decided.

    Here is an example of why you need to demo machines or at least read the user manual. I engrave crystal awards using the center point as a guideline. The ULS and Trotec do things similarly. Import your artwork, move the head over, the artwork will snap to that point. The Epilog (print driver) you enter it as a center/center engraving, bring the head to the point, set it as the home, and it moves the head accordingly. The Rayjet software doesn't offer either. So now a feature I consider essential isn't available on a machine that on paper, looked the best value buy on the market.
    Ross, I'm sure you know that the Rayjet is built by Trotec as their entry level laser and as such has some stripped down features, have you also looked at the entry level ULS Versalaser or the Epilog Zing? Also, GCC LaserPro have some good machines, I don't know what their entry level machines are like though, maybe someone with a C180 or Venus II can chime in with their thoughts. Just a thought, but I wonder if the Rayjet software can be upgraded to the features you want, for the extra cost of course.
    Universal PLS 6.120D 75 watt
    MutiCam Apex CNC 4'x8' w 6 bit TC.
    EnrRoute 6 Pro 3d software.
    Vision 2550 Rotary Engraver.


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