Electrical service

[greg Forster]

I'm not very knowledgeable on electrical and before I talk with an electrician, I'd like to have some ideas.

I'm going to completely gut out my house- all new MEP systems, etc.Probably take me a year+ to get CO
On the electric, I plan on bringing a 200amp underground. Is there a meter base where I can bring in the 200 and come
out to a 150 amp panel in the house and a 50 amp panel in the out-building.

this way, I can have permanent power from the out-building, while working on the house versus setting up a T-pole

[Tom M King]

I'd use a 40 slot 200 amp panel in the house, and have a 50 amp subpanel pulled out of that to the outbuilding. There are meter bases with breaker slots, but I'd figure on the 200 and 50 sub to end up with. Talk to your inspector to see what he will want to see for a temporary setup.

[David L Morse]

I had a nearly identical situation except it was 100A to the house and 200Amp to the shop. Where I live the utility supplies the meter base so I told them what I was doing and in addition to the base they gave me a set of double lug terminals so I could replace the single lugs on the standard base.

[greg Forster]

Is my thinking right on this: if I split my 200amp at the
meter base , then I've committed to a maximum of 150 at the house and 50 at the outbuildings -basically two separate systems. if I bring the entire 200 to the house panel, then a sub panel for the other building, I could even have , say a 100 amp breaker at the sub panel

[David L Morse]

I'm not sure how things work where you are but here I just told the power company what I wanted and they gave me a 400A meter base with the double lugs for retrofit and sized their feed based upon estimated demand. My fixed service charge is the same as my neighbor's 200A service.

[Matt Marsh]

Greg, In the area where I live here in Northern Minnesota, the customer supplies the meter socket, and the utility company provides the underground cable to the line side of that socket. In a rural setting here it is common to see two types of setups. The first is a 200 amp meter socket with a separate 200 amp terminal box on the load side that has multiple taps for the house and outbuildings. The second, and my favorite way of doing it, is to use a 320 amp meter socket. These sockets only come with threaded studs for the terminations, and you provide the lugs that bolt to theses studs. You can by lugs with multiple barrels to suit your needs. The 320 amp sockets are quite a bit larger than a 200, but the completed installation is better looking with just the one single box, versus a 200 amp socket and 200 amp terminal box. It is very common here to see a pedestal, normally located centrally on the property, usually constructed of 4X4s and 3/4 inch treated plywood. Check with your local utility to see where their responsibility ends, and if they have different rules and regulations.

[greg Forster]

Thanks everyone for your advice;

Matt, those are the two options I'm looking at; how large is the 320 amp setup- could that be mounted on the side of my house

what I'm trying to do is get power to my outbuildings so I have a workshop while re-doing completely my house.

[Mike Heidrick]

I just did this similar install. I mounted on my house a 320 amp meter base. Off of it I mounted 2 200 amp disconnects - one for house and one for new shop. This would allow me later to rework my main house panel and do all shop power work on my schedule. I also changed my overhead weather head and mast to accommodate the larger service line. I was responsible for 36" out of the weather head and everything else. Power company contractors replaced my transformer and all wire to my weather head and gave me a new digital 320amp meter. It was a lot of work but it is awesome now that it is done. My 320amp meter base had dual lugs on each side. Made it easy to wire both disconnects - easy is not the right word. I highly suggest a knock out hydraulic setup and some greenlee wire benders. They saved my but on 4/0 alum. My shop is about 180 ft from house and that was trenched underground.

[Rollie Meyers]

I just did this similar install. I mounted on my house a 320 amp meter base. Off of it I mounted 2 200 amp disconnects - one for house and one for new shop. This would allow me later to rework my main house panel and do all shop power work on my schedule. I also changed my overhead weather head and mast to accommodate the larger service line. I was responsible for 36" out of the weather head and everything else. Power company contractors replaced my transformer and all wire to my weather head and gave me a new digital 320amp meter. It was a lot of work but it is awesome now that it is done. My 320amp meter base had dual lugs on each side. Made it easy to wire both disconnects - easy is not the right word. I highly suggest a knock out hydraulic setup and some greenlee wire benders. They saved my but on 4/0 alum. My shop is about 180 ft from house and that was trenched underground.

Unless you have calculations proving the load is 180 amperes or less, 4/0 AL cannot be used for a 200A feed to a shop, the NEC rule allowing 4/0 AL for 200A only applies when it supplies the entire load of a dwelling, sub panels & feeders to outbuildings do not meet the requirement, overcurrent protection of 175A or the use of 250 Kcmil Al would be compliant.



Edit: Just because it was passed by a inspector does not make it correct.

[Mike Heidrick]

Whew, Good thing you don't have to use any of it Rollie, you would not be happy with it at all.

Greg, use kcmil 250 and make Rollie happy.

[Matt Marsh]

Rollie is correct regarding the wire size. Some areas are more lax on that than others. They allowed us in this area to use 4/0 AL for these 200 amp out-buildings in the past, but not as of the last couple years.

There are several different manufacturers of 320 amp sockets, and each manufacturer makes more than one model. There are ones rated for underground only, and others made for overhead or underground. There is a wide range in sizes within these models. I see the big box stores are listing some on their online sites now, but they come with single barrel lugs on the line side, and two-barrel lugs on the load side. If you have more than two feeders leaving, you would half to purchase and replace the two-barrel lugs with the appropriate ones. I have not compared retail prices lately, so I can't tell you if that route would be cheaper than buying everything separate from an electrical supply house. Here is a link to Milbank's sockets. http://www.milbankmfg.com/metering/s...s/320-amp.aspx

There is another caution that may apply to you. Some of the underground models are designed so the line side conductors route straight up into lugs without bending. I've seen it where frost heaving will actually tear the guts loose from the back of the can. It is always best if you can put bends in the conductors if you live in an area prone to frost heaving.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_219450-21747...%7C1&facetInfo=

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Milbank-3...-5T9/202504264

[Mike Heidrick]

You guys may have said it but the meter base needed to be in Amerans book on approved meter bases so check that requirement. Also you may need an inversion clip for your socket.

[Rollie Meyers]

Whew, Good thing you don't have to use any of it Rollie, you would not be happy with it at all.

Greg, use kcmil 250 and make Rollie happy.

It's not a case of making me happy, it's called doing work that complies with the NEC.

[Tom M King]

Here, the power company provides the meter base, so I guess it varies by locale. The power company will make special provisions, and order something special if you have a particular request that they don't have the right base for in stock. I'm sure they make up for it later, so it still costs you, but not initially.

[Mark Bolton]

Im sure if varies by location but here the utility supplies a meter base only. If you want/require a disconnect/meter base and you want it in a combo (all one enclosure) you supply it yourself. You can of course get the free base from the utility and hang your own disconnect below but the combo is much cleaner.