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Thread: Safety poll: Do you use the guard on your tablesaw?

  1. #91
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    Helensburgh, Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade Lippman View Post
    3 The guard isn't necessary, but the splitter sure it. I am astonished by the people saying they don't use splitters!
    Don't set the fence parallel with the blade and the risk is vastly reduced, buy a slider and there is no risk.
    Chris

    Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening

  2. #92
    To me and how I define a splitter (sits further back, rises over the blade, doesn't tilt) I can see why it's not used, seems clumsy. Riving knives are the only way to go IMO. And a short fence insert eliminates pinching, though I mostly use my long and very parallel fence.

    And not having the fence parallel to the blade, that makes no sense to me, isn't that pretty important if you want straight cuts. Putting it slightly out of alignment so it can't pinch is safe (due to wear on my saw it was like that at first) but I'd rather have a parallel fence with a riving knife and make dead straight cuts, so many problems things are out of square IMO...

  3. #93
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    The fence not being parallel has zero effect on the accuracy or size of the cut. The reason is that the saw blade or plate is what actually guides the timber after the material being cut is about half way through and the fence ceases to be effective or even needed. It is this exact reason why European saws use a half fence, it is simply not needed after the mid point of the blade. All the gadgets sold to get the fence parallel are a good way to waste money and I think it was back in the old days of the rec.woodworking newsgroup that one of the posters there went on a sales campaign to sell his new invention which he argued everyone needed. There were some good debates about it then but he seems to have convinced everyone that parallel is a good thing when in fact it is outright dangerous especially without a proper riving knife.
    Chris

    Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening

  4. #94
    It'll cut straight, but not square...

    Even with the short fence it's important that the piece is guided straight into the blade for a square cut. Like I said I had a non parallel fence on my european saw due to wear (I corrected it using a hammer and punch and calibrated framing square, cost $0 as I owned these tools anyway) and the result was non square cuts until I fixed my fence, it didn't help if I used a short configuration insert as it was still being guided into the blade at an angle. The cut was straight, the board wasn't square.

    I was ripping long lengths and I was easily able to measure this, now after correcting it it's hardly detectable, and the quality of the rip cut is also better, almost glue line quality from the get go.

  5. #95
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    Oct 2005
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    Ripping is all about cutting straight and the reason a half fence is so good is it is not necessary to toe out the fence. If the risks were properly known I doubt most users would use a full fence.
    Chris

    Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening

  6. #96
    I don't know of an application except a taper cut where I'd be happy with only straight but not square results. So even when I use the short fence it's important it lines up properly so everything is fed into the blade at the correct angle.

    edit: Feeding the wood at anything but a 90 angle ought to put lateral stresses on the blade too, makin it dig into the sides of the blade when I think about the physics involved, which is probably why my cuts improved so much in quality when I made the fence parallel. Even a short fence needs to be parallel (or square) to the blade thusly as I see it.
    Last edited by Dennis Aspö; 10-31-2014 at 3:55 AM.

  7. #97
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    The blade in effect becomes the guide, mechanically it can't work any other way. I know it is an idea totally foreign to most as nearly all users think the fence is the only guidance system. The fence is the prime guide until the saw plate comes into effect as the cut continues. I am also aware of the strong debate that goes both ways but there are way more kick back injuries and incidents than there are actual hand.saw blade injuries and the kick back injuries occur because of lack of understanding of the guidance process actually works. I think it is the major area in TS use that needs far more education but sadly it does not seem high on any ones list of priorities. I will now be deluged with posts that espouse the view that a parallel fence is the way to go, it always happens. The mitre slot is what needs to be parallel so that it can be used for squaring of material. Sorry for dragging this thread off topic so I will retire now.
    Chris

    Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening

  8. #98
    # 1 for me.

  9. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    The blade in effect becomes the guide, mechanically it can't work any other way. I know it is an idea totally foreign to most as nearly all users think the fence is the only guidance system. The fence is the prime guide until the saw plate comes into effect as the cut continues. I am also aware of the strong debate that goes both ways but there are way more kick back injuries and incidents than there are actual hand.saw blade injuries and the kick back injuries occur because of lack of understanding of the guidance process actually works. I think it is the major area in TS use that needs far more education but sadly it does not seem high on any ones list of priorities. I will now be deluged with posts that espouse the view that a parallel fence is the way to go, it always happens. The mitre slot is what needs to be parallel so that it can be used for squaring of material. Sorry for dragging this thread off topic so I will retire now.
    The saw plate can not possibly be the guide because the teeth are wider than the plate. If you're dragging on the saw plate after a cut, not only is this just bad for a million different reasons, you'll eventually run hard into the back teeth, encouraging and begging for a kickback to happen.
    Last edited by John Coloccia; 10-31-2014 at 7:24 AM.

  10. #100
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    The fence better not be toed in toward the blade, I think we can all agree on that. So, IF you can't get the fence parallel to the TOOTH LINE, then you are far better off to be ever so slightly toed out with your fence. I'd guess mine is toed out ~ 1/32" at the far end, maybe 1/16" - that's my mental picture anyway without actually being in my shop to measure. Lets say for the sake of discussion that I am toed out 1/16". Half of that toe out is right at the leading edge of the blade. Lets say I have 12 inches in front of the blade to guide my workpiece along that slightly obtuse angle. 1/32" divided into 12 inches is an angle of ~ 0.15 degrees. Not perfectly square, but not so far off that it bothers for many things

  11. #101
    If the blade and fence are not parallel or nearly so, you get 'heeling" where the material is being recut by the back of the blade coming up, causing tearout. A non-parallel fence also makes it difficult to use the fence as a stop for the miter gauge or sliding table, as the setting will vary slightly depending on where on its length the stock is registering. This can be an issue, for instance, cutting wide cabinet decks and narrow stretchers on a slider using the fence as a length gauge. If the fence is farther away from the cut line at the blade than at the front of the machine, the decks and stretchers will vary slightly in length. A minor point, perhaps, but accuracy and consistency is the whole reason for having a saw like that.

    Certainly, a short fence can be safer when ripping solid wood, but there are many times when an extended fence works better. When cutting sheet goods on the slider, if enough of the panel is on the carriage to control its movement there, I will pull the fence back so it ends before thy blade, but if almost all of the panel is to the right of the blade, the fence will be extended forward to allow for guidance all the way through the cut. If the fence is held back in this case, it is very easy for the panel to twist out of the line of cut in the last few inches. I don't think you can make a blanket statement about length of fence, it depends on the particular cut. That's why the Euro style fence is so useful, and clamp-on or drop-on short auxiliary fences for US style fences should be in use when called for.

  12. #102
    the short position fence and riving knife are not remedy's to a poorly ill adjusted table saw. Because a properly adjusted table saw would have a fence that was not faultily/ and flat with no twist ,set parallel to the blade (as are the miter slots)so that it can be used from both sides of the blade ,and a riving knife that is sized properly to the saw plate and kerf(thicker than plate and thinner the kerf) and set 4MM from the back of the blade ,and a crown guard that does not fault the fence(so that is does not need to be removed)in narrow strip ripping,and have a least 2 push sticks and a run off table of no less than 1 meter(39")so that the tail boy(apprentices) can not reach the back of the blade.

    just saying
    Last edited by jack forsberg; 10-31-2014 at 9:18 AM.
    jack
    English machines

  13. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    I will now be deluged with posts that espouse the view that a parallel fence is the way to go, it always happens.
    Well, at least you admit that you're not open to others' opinions. For everyone else, I would not recommend not bothering with fence alignment and the belief that the blade will guide the wood with or without a fence, once your cut is started. That's a good way to get hurt.

  14. #104
    Nothing for me, I find that the spinning blade focuses my mind wonderfully.

  15. #105
    Join Date
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    NW Indiana
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    I will not deluge you with posts but I really disagree with you. I will take the time and align my fence as close as I can parallel to the blade. I have made cuts where the board comes off the fence a bit and end up with a poor cut and not a straight one either. Chris Parks can have his opinion and I am happy for him but think that he is absolutely wrong it can not be any other way.

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