Penny wise, pound foolish

[Scott Brandstetter]

Guys
I am like a lot of people I think. I am at the age that I want quality tools but have a very limited supply of cash, capital, money, etc. I have been looking at Craigslist for 2 months now for an 8 inch jointer and very few come up that I think are anywhere near a deal. I am debating ordering a Grizzly (nothing in stock, probably until December before they can ship) and buying an older, used jointer on line. Here is my question. It seems, the best I can do, is buy a 5-10 year old 8 inch jointer for around $500 on craigslist vs getting a Grizzly new, $850, plus shipping. I know everyone talks about getting the great Craigslist deal but I simply haven't seen it. In fact, I've looked within 250 miles of my house.

I am also going to upgrade my table saw. Have the cheapo ridged saw right now (I shouldn't say it like that, the darn saw has served me well for 10+ years) and thinking about placing an order with Grizzly for both the table saw and jointer. The total cost, roughly, would be $2600 for both. If I could find used equipment online, I feel like I could save maybe $800. Is it worth giving up the search and buying new, getting the warranty, and all that comes with a new machine or would you keep searching for used equipment. My only issue with used is having to put money into someone else's problem.

Would appreciate your thoughts. (and I do know, Grizzly isn't considered the Gold Standard but I have read the reviews, and based on my financial situation, works the best)

[Keith Weber]

Scott,

Craigslist is great if you've got time on your hands, but its usefulness decreases as the urgency of your tool quests increases. When you need something now, the chances of you scoring a good deal on Craigslist will depend mostly on luck. I looked for a 52" Pexto shear for about a year and a half before I found one on Craigslist. Of course, as soon as I bought it, there were about 3 or 4 of them in better condition that came along within the next month or so. If you have the time and aren't bothered by the wait, just keep watching and eventually the deals will come to you.

As far as new Grizzly vs. used other... my personal opinion is that you don't necessarily go for used for the money savings, but rather the quality. Most older American-made tools were just better built than the import tools of today. I like new things, but I like quality things better. Some pros for buying old are: American-made, heavier construction, better machining, reduced vibration (due to the previously-mentioned cons), money-savings (possibly), durability. Some cons for buying old: Possibly worn out from decades of commercial use, parts not available (or very expensive), possible power-needs/moving issues, lack of warranty, space requirements. Buying new and buying old are both viable options. Picking a path depends on what your personal situation and abilities are. I, personally, have 3-phase power available, can easily move anything up to about 4,000 lbs., and have the ability to make or repair just about any part on my old machines, so, for me, the decision is an easy one -- I'm gradually replacing all of my import machines with old iron.

That said, there's certainly nothing wrong with buying new. There are also varying levels of quality with different brands, too, however you usually get what you pay for. The great part is that you have an endless amount of choices, which is all part of the fun of putting together your own, unique workshop.

The other thing to consider since you are looking for a table saw, is safety features. Although well-built, a lot of the older saws lack a lot of the safety features available on modern table saws. In today's world, I wouldn't buy a table saw for my shop unless it had a riving knife.

Keith

[Jim Andrew]

Where I live, there are not a lot of choices for used woodworking equipment, and I have filled my shop with mostly new machines. Had a little luck with used, but not a lot. Once a year or so, I see a used tablesaw come along on craigslist or Nextech, but not often enough for much choice. Grizzly makes a fine tablesaw, especially the 1023, built in Taiwan, and I personally like the parallagram jointers, having a G0609, with byrd cutterhead. There are some tablesaws on the Christmas sale right now, as well as the parallelagram 8" jonter with helical cutterhead.

[Chuck Darney]

You might try IRS (Industrial Recovery Services) Auctions http://www.irsauctions.com/ While I haven't participated in any of the auctions I follow them and have seen some very good deals on equipment.

[Rick Moyer]

I'm fortune that Muncy,PA is close enough that I have purchased several Grizzly tools and have not had to pay shipping; picked them up myself. I feel the two items you seek, jointer and table saw, are two of the better values that Grizzly sells. I have an 8" discontinued jointer that I have been very happy with, and a G0691 table saw that I think has been very good as well. I would definitely choose an 8" straight-knife jointer over spiral head 6" if that's any consideration.
Only you can decide whether you want to keep searching for used, but I don't see much decent used stuff around here either. I'd probably still not have either tool for the price point I paid if I waited for something decent to come onto Craigslist at a reasonable price.

[Cary Falk]

Used is hit or miss. I have some used equipment but most of my stuff is Grizzly. I waited 2 years to find a PM1200 drill press. Who has time to do that? It gets very tiring and time consuming. I have also restored several several machines and fit and finish was no better than what you get today so I don't get what some people gush about. I sold my restored Uni for a Grizzly G1023RL to get a riving knife. I couldn't be happier after 3 years. I also have a G0490( actually a Shop ox W174) parallagram jointer and am very happey with it also. There are a lot of people that have these 2 tools and are happy so you can't go wrong with those choices.

[Keith Hankins]

Well, I've got a lot of Green (not $$$). I've also done a lot of old tool shopping. I've got the griz 12" jointer. I've also got the 17" HD bs, and had the 1023slx (sold to upgrade to sawstop). All have been good tools not an issue. I also wanted a bigger planer and waited almost a year for the right one to come along and it was worth it.

So, if you can't wait, then I don't think the griz will dissapoint. If it were me, I'd try to find an old american used for a great price.

I'd reccomend going over to the old woodworking tools forum. http://www.owwm.org/ 2nd good choice is searchtempest.com (searches all the CL's in a radius of your zip)

They have a wealth of knowledge and they regularly put old american Iron up for sale. While I'm fine with my griz that i have, no coparrison to the old stuff. Second, if you are patient, some real deals come up. I'd bet you could get a 12" for that much if you can wait. I got a 60's northfield planer for 1500 that new is 14k.

So is there an absolute yes/no to your choice. No there is not. A good deal will come along, but you may have to wait. Like I said I waited a long time, but then I had my lunchbox planer so I could work. Good luck on the decision, its a good one to be facing.

[glenn bradley]

The used market will fluctuate so if you know what you are after and can wait for opportunity to knock, you can find a deal. I take deals when I find them but, If I want to finish a bedroom set by a certain date or, I have been collecting wood for 2 years while I look for that "hot deal" I just go new and try to get the best bang for the buck.

Whenever someone asks about a machine, there is inevitably a chorus of better or upgraded suggestions and these are made with the best of intentions. Folks (me included) who say "but for only $200 more you can get . . . " are not trying to spend your money. They are telling you about something they may have failed to do or are soooo happy they did do in the past. You have to gather all the input you can and then make the best decision for you, your current situation and your long term plans.

I have Saw Stop, Delta, DeWalt and a number of other colors and am pretty much brand agnostic since the decline of brand stability kicked in a decade or more ago. I found that for my jointer needs, Grizzly G0490X offered the best bang for the buck. This model has had some improvements over the years without much of a price increase so I imagine it is still a front runner if you want a spiral head, long parallelogram bed, tall fenced jointer with 3HP.

The jointer satisfied me to the point that I veered off my search for a larger planer other places and just got the G0453Z and have been extremely pleased with both for years. That did not stop me from buying a SuperMax when I wanted a drum sander because the 19-38 happened to be the best bang for the buck in that tool at the time. I will add that it is a pleasure to use and lacks all those complaints that you hear about drum sanders

Now if someone would just make a decent drill press with modern conveniences and a woodworking-centric table system, I could die happy.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

In today's world, I wouldn't buy a table saw for my shop unless it had a riving knife.

this is most important, not only for safety but quality of cut.

[Peter Quinn]

I've used a grizzly TS, not a bad unit, I'd take a new griz with riving knife over an old uni personally (or a lot of other options), wouldn't trade my PM 66 for one just to get a riving knife, splitter works just fine, I also wouldn't sit on my hands for 5 years waiting for a used TS to appear. Is it the best saw I ever used? No, but more than adequate, quite decent actually. On the jointer, I'd probably just get the grizzly as well, not sure there was some golden age of 8" jointers, most of the industrial old iron was much bigger, I've used a few beat down old 8" jointer at jobs I'd just as soon smelt as tune again ( delta, Rockwell, PM), they are not all fantastic. I own an older delta Dj-20 I probably paid more than it was worth, but it was barely used, still had cosmoline on the tables! I waited 4 years and looked at so much junk guys were trying to get top dollar for, major waste of my time. Craig's list is a gold mine...and like just any gold mine some guys strike it rich, most work hard for next to nothing for a long time.

[Phil Barrett]

I'm an enthusiastic (some might say obsessive) CL and auction tool shopper. Always looking for the great deal. If you just a snapshot of all the CL tool offerings at any one week period, it's easy to make the claim that nothing comes up. Yet over the course of a few months it's a different story. Jointers come up regularly in my area and aren't terribly expensive. Yet there can be weeks where not a single one shows.

Also, have you offered the seller of the overpriced jointer less? Some times people put high prices on a piece but are willing to bargain. Unless they are a dealer, most of the time the thing is taking up space and they really want it gone. Stuff in storage units is particularly good this way. They are paying for the unit. A guy was selling a Ridgid planer out of a storage unit - wanted 250, I offered 125 ("it's a risk for me, I can't see it run") and he countered 140. Done. It works fine (for a 2 knife lunchbox planer)

My philosophy is that if I buy a used tool at a reasonable price, I can turn around and sell it for about what I paid. So, if a better one comes along at a good price, grab it and sell the older tool for what you paid. The planer got upgraded 3 months later to a Griz 15" that wasn't very much more.

The other thing to make CL a lot easier are the search tools. I use a chrome add-in that emails me the results of CL searches. This makes it easy to be able to jump on a listing as soon as it is posted. For example, I'm looking for a decent spindle sander - lots come up but they are too far away. I'm patient - reading the email search results takes all of 5 minutes a day.

[Bill McNiel]

As has been stated before CL can truly test one's patience, but it can deliver some great buys. I have been checking CL twice a day for tool upgrades / shop additions for the last two years and never found anything until the last couple of months. But then.....

I looked for over 1 1/2 years for a SuperMax 19/38 Drum Sander and never saw even one, a lot of Jets and Deltas but no SuperMax. Just when I was ready to give up and buy one new, a 25/50 that had been purchased new two months prior came up. I got it, $250 worth of sandpaper, the table extensions and closed mobile base for $1400 which is less than the the 19/38 without tables, base, wheels, paper, tax or delivery.

A pristine Grizzley floor model spindle sander for less than the much smaller table top models ($325).

A virtually new PC 7518 upgrade for my router table for $140 vs $305 on Amazon for the motor only.

A MFT table without a mark on it for $375.

Not gloating, just trying to point out that if you have the time to wait eventually you will find a real bargin or two. Only you can decide if you can wait and potentially save a bunch or need to have the tool now. I'm fortunate in that my shop was pretty much complete and I have had the luxury of waiting for upgrades to come along a great prices. BTW- I only buy tools that can pay for 50% of the price on the first project, after all I'm a woodworker not a tool colector or restorer.

[Kevin Bourque]

You probably aren't finding a reasonably priced 8" jointer on CL because they seem to sell very quickly.
Some of the best deals I've gotten were when I contacted the seller within 20 minutes of their posting.
I always offer to come over right away no matter how far away it is.
It's amazing how many times the sellers tell me that 10-20 people have Emailed them since I did.

[Earl Rumans]

One of the biggest things about CL is your location. If you're in a major area, with lots of woodworkers, you can get some great deals. If you not near such an area, it won't matter how long you look, you just wont find anything, I live in such an area. If it were me, I would go ahead and buy new, that's just what I did last year but them I am old and don't have a lot of time to waste. Grizzly doesn't make the best tools but they make a decent tool for the money and many people are very happy with them.

[John Vernier]

If you are willing to shop as far away as Cincinnati you could do worse than look at a couple of used equipment sources there: I bought an older Unisaw from Pro Tool (no website, but the current number seems to be (513) 772-1490, call and see what they have in stock). The company sells and services Makita and other small power tools, but the owner, Mike Moeggenberg, buys, reconditions and sells heavier equipment on the side. I found him easy to work with, though I only bought the one saw from him. There is also E. B. Mueller Co., which sells new and used equipment (www.muellerco.com). They are a much bigger company and had a fair amount of used stock on hand when I visited. Neither of these companies is going to provide a CL-type bargain, but as they are selling to the trade they are more communicative and knowledgeable about their offerings than a lot of CL sellers. The same should go for used equipment dealers in other cities - I haven't investigated Indianapolis but there must be something there, anybody have a recommendation?