Japanese Marking Gauges - a Pleasant Surprise

[David Weaver]

As part of the discussion that was brought up here about the Kinshiro gauges, I went out to stu's page and to ebay and looked around at the options for mortise marking gauges. Long ago, I had bought one of the really cheap gauges from japan woodworker and decided that it was not worth the trouble to clean up (likely something I wouldn't conclude now, but I didn't know what to do back then to get the blades to slide over each other freely).

So I bought the gauge that costs about $130 on stu's page because it looked like it would mark narrow mortises, and then went out to ebay. I found this gauge. I didn't know anything about it other than that it looked honest, it was cheap, and the irons appear to be very well made. I'd presume this was a workman's grade gauge that came out of miki in droves, but not at $17 like the really inexpensive gauges. After ordering it, the lady doing the sale said her husband had used it and he was a professional. The way the irons are sharpened suggests it, too. You can't see in the picture, but the bevels are perfectly flat and the knife edges are perfectly clean and sharp with no nicks or damage.

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look at those irons!! I bought it for $28, figuring that if the wood was junked in any way shape or form, I could just remake a gauge and those two irons would be worth the cost of admission.

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It will definitely mark a 6mm mortise, which is the smallest size I normally make. Everything on it is slick just like you'd expect it to be if a professional was using it, the irons are super smooth adjusting against each other and the gauge. And it marks a mortise much more easily than my pin gauge. Kind of wish I hadn't spent $130 on a new one!!

I guess the moral is if you're sometimes cheap like me, look for these on peebay - they don't bring much, and this gauge can't be far off from a really high dollar gauge when it comes to function. And it's shape (and how properly it's maintained) has something to do with the fact that it was used by a professional and not experimented on by someone getting their first gauge.

[Derek Cohen]

David

I posted another option to the Kinshiro some time ago (as you know I have used a Kinshiro for a few years) ...

Tools from Japan sell the Large Ryuma for $17. This comes with 2 blades for mortices ...



The bones are decent but need work. The body is about 3/4 the thickness of the Kinshiro. The blades are a little rough but have potential. The wing nut is a disaster - too difficult to adjust with one hand. And how to adjust one blade with one hand?

Here is the completed modification ..



Alongside the Kinshiro ...



Article on my website: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMad...nTheCheap.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[ken hatch]

David,

I have that gauge, or one just like it, I acquired it back in the 70's. Wanting another was what started me down the road to buying a Kinshiro. If it is the same as mine it will be a very good gauge for you.

ken

[Matthew N. Masail]

Derek, I Fail to understand why to body need to be thicker? would it not be enough to do all the other work (which is hardly work) and leave to body as it is?

[Derek Cohen]

Matthew

The thinner body just did not feel comfortable in the hand, and made it harder to grip.

Look at the thickness of the Kinshiro and the cheapie.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[David Weaver]

Matthew

The thinner body just did not feel comfortable in the hand, and made it harder to grip.

Look at the thickness of the Kinshiro and the cheapie.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I'd imagine kinshiro didn't come by the thickness of that gauge by accident. The older one I pictured above is also wide, and it's a treat to use. Maybe not as good as the kinshiro, but very nice action.

I rarely luck across something that's been used professionally and is in condition like that one, one that is slick, properly prepared and well adjusted. It's only downside is that it has a strong smell of cigarettes!

It does appear, also, that kinshiro's blades (and the ones for the more expensive line stu carries) are forge welded to the tangs, and the version I have above are bent. The line stu uses are stainless tangs with super blue blades forge welded to them, an interesting combination.

[David Weaver]

David,

I have that gauge, or one just like it, I acquired it back in the 70's. Wanting another was what started me down the road to buying a Kinshiro. If it is the same as mine it will be a very good gauge for you.

ken

Glad to hear it, Ken. It seems that some of the good quality middle of the road stuff has evaporated, though I noticed that So has a line that's probably equivalent to this in quality (as in decent and straightforward, but not finished as well as kinshiro)..

[ken hatch]

Matthew

The thinner body just did not feel comfortable in the hand, and made it harder to grip.

Look at the thickness of the Kinshiro and the cheapie.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek,

I agree, I've tried the cheap ones and they do not fit in my hand as well. They will make a mark but it is easier to let the stock wander because of the way they fit.

BTW, I like your mods, it still doesn't fix the loose iron track but I expect a couple of small shims would fix that.

ken

[Brian Holcombe]

It's from japan, the smell of cigarettes is very authentic I bought a book on bonsai that was of a similar situation to what you described with the gauge and it smelled like I left it in my humidor for a few weeks.

[Derek Cohen]

Derek,

I agree, I've tried the cheap ones and they do not fit in my hand as well. They will make a mark but it is easier to let the stock wander because of the way they fit.

BTW, I like your mods, it still doesn't fix the loose iron track but I expect a couple of small shims would fix that.

ken

Hi Ken

There is no slop in the modified version ...

The fit is firm and, indeed, I needed to file finger grips in the shafts to aid in adjusting them.

Since I conversed the gauges to single blade use, there is a shim under the blade to raise the blade into position.



What slop are you referring to?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[ken hatch]

Derek,

The last couple I picked up had a lot of slop in the iron track enough that the iron would slip 5 or so degrees in use even if locked down pretty tight. I expect if I mod one I will convert it to a single iron as well.

ken

[David Weaver]

It's from japan, the smell of cigarettes is very authentic I bought a book on bonsai that was of a similar situation to what you described with the gauge and it smelled like I left it in my humidor for a few weeks.

The lady selling them was in texas, but her husband may have been japanese. She had a double-arm marking gauge, too (which I also bought), and most of the stuff the guy had was pretty honest looking stuff (and most of it is japanese).

I pictured the same thing, japanese guy smoking a cigarette while working - a lot of the videos on youtube show the same thing.

[Pat Barry]

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What is the rabbet cut into the tool handle for? When I first looked at it I thought it would help register the gage to the proper height and that your gage was assembled incorrectly.

[David Weaver]

I'm not sure. I though the same thing when I took it out of the box, but it's obvious that the relief for the blades is cut in the other side. It might be finger relief for a grip in case the gauge is on a flat surface. No clue. I admittedly don't know anything about japanese gauges other than that I like this one.

[Derek Cohen]

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Hi David

I've just had another look a your gauge. It appears that the centre blade guide has loosened and shifted away from the main body/fence. It is no longer flush with the face. This will restrict its use.

Tap it back and re-glue.

Regards from Perth

Derek