Lie-Nielsen plow plane and honing guide photos on shop talk blog

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Shop Talk Live has photos of the LN honing guide and plow plane. Both look pretty sweet. I like the interchangeable clamp heads for the honing guide.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/...e-nielsen-live

[Patrick Harper]

I've been thinking about the Veritas, but now I think I'll have to wait.

[Steve Friedman]

I've been waiting for this for a while, but the price projection is pretty high. I listened to the podcast and TLN said he expected it to be $125 just for the basic guide, which is double the cost of the LV and Richard Kell guides and 10 times the cost of an Eclipse clone. Add $20 or so for the extra jaws and it's sure to be $200 for the full set. It's also more expensive than the Gerd Fritsche guide, which will do everything. If it ever does come to market, I'd have to think long and hard about whether that's the best way to spend sharpening money.

Steve

[Patrick Harper]

Sorry, I was referring to the plow plane. I use an eclipse for my plane irons and freehand my chisels. Did they list a price point for the plow plane?

[Malcolm Schweizer]

No price point for the plow, but it looks pretty intricate- the "skid" (not sure the term) is rivited to the body (seen in the photo) and the whole tool is pretty complex. Just guessing, but I am figuring it's going to be very pricey- maybe $400+, who knows, but I bet over $300.

I agree with Steve's comment above that the price point for the sharpening jig is pretty steep, especially since you need more than one set of jaws. I would think you would need at least two- the standard plane blade set, and the chisel set. The skewed set looks to me to be the best design for doing skewed blades, but that's yet another $30 set to buy. So $120 plus 3x $30 means $210. Well, to keep it positive- that's less than I paid for many of my waterstones and diamond hones. The closest thing I have in that price range is the Pinnacle sharpening contraption- and I do say "Contraption" over "Jig" because it's so complicated. I like the Pinnacle better for chisels, but my Veritas gets the job done well enough, especially for plane blades. One thing I like about the LN is that it sure looks like it will register easily and stay in alignment.

[David Weaver]

I'll sound like a broken record, but skewed blades are just another good example of why it's good to learn to freehand grind and hone. You keep the angle of the skewed iron in line with honing, and you use the grinder not to adjust the angle, but relieve yourself of having to do too much metal work.

I always thought skewed planes were a serious pain in the butt until honing them by hand. A jig complicates things (and makes them more expensive) to a point where they just don't need to be that complicated. The plane itself will tell you whether or not you've honed the iron properly - if you didn't, you won't get an even cut.

Once what I'm talking about becomes habit, it takes about an extra five seconds to eyeball a skewed iron when you put it in to make sure it's straight. And it will be once you've done it a few times. It's like grinding a blade - you don't need to check to see if the edge is square to the sides - you only need to check if you have some adjustment room in the plane. The plane will tell you what you need to know.

IIRC, the price of the plow plane was initially proposed to be fairly low, but I don't see how it will remain there. It's lost a bit of the attractiveness by losing the floral casting on old planes, but I understand whay that's been lost (the adjuster wheels on LN planes are another good example where things declined a little bit in aesthetics). Those kind of style touches aren't likely to be something most people care about.

It's just my opinion, but LN does such a good job with bench and block planes, it seems like the rest of their stuff is a bit of a stretch and they struggle a little more with stuff that isn't bread and butter, and the price point and inability to actually get those items suggests it. I'm sure they'll sell some regardless of the price, though.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I'll sound like a broken record, but skewed blades are just another good example of why it's good to learn to freehand grind and hone. You keep the angle of the skewed iron in line with honing, and you use the grinder not to adjust the angle, but relieve yourself of having to do too much metal work.

OH NO! Did I start another sharpening thread? Haha. Actually I have come to the point where now I use jigs mainly for setting primary bevels and sharpen by hand otherwise. That's a very general statement, however, with many different variables. For instance, as you mentioned skewed blades, I will do my skewed irons by hand, but I will do a skewed chisel most of the time with a honing guide- especially for a very narrow one where it's easy to get out of kilter. I still like to set the primary bevel on skewed irons using the Veritas jig.

Anyway, I stick to my guns so far that this looks well designed, and I can see it will register very true, but still not sure about the price point. As a confessed sharpaholic, I will probably one day end up with the LN honing guide, but it won't be first on my priority tool list since what I have now (Pinnacle, Veritas, Tormek, waterstones, diamond hones) gets me by.

Now, as for the plow plane, I was disappointed that LN didn't decide to do something fancy with the casting. I do realize there are costs involved- more intricate casting means more room for mistakes. I just think it would have been a cool nod to the old school, and also I would have liked to see Thomas Lie-Nielsen's interpretation of that aspect of the design. Maybe down the road he can do a bronze limited edition with "embellished" casting, which is a horrible word to describe it, but not sure even what to call it. AH! I just read back through David's post- floral design. Yes, that's a good way to put it.

David- what do you mean about the adjuster wheels on the LN planes? How are they a decline? (Not asking argumentatively, but I don't see where they are a decline.)

[David Weaver]

The adjuster wheels are entirely an opinion thing. I think their adjuster wheels have an industrial supply look to some extent, with sort of a gear tooth look to the outside, grip I guess you'd say. And they look more like a flat slab.

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/w...handplane.html

The stanley adjuster looks more refined and has a nice outside segmentation/knurl.

It's a small thing, and we're talking about planes that cost $300-$475? something like that. It's not like it's something I think they should change, nor do I think it's out of line on a plane of that price (which given what their planes are, I think is a pretty good price).

The other thing I never loved about LN's planes is the use of cherry for the handles, but I recognize the dilemma of using something more traditional like rosewood or cocobolo - you first have to get it in large supply these days and second have to have a labor supply that can handle the dust. Same thing, given the price, to try to overcome those things would probably drive it up and that just puts planes in the hands of fewer people. They know more about their business than I do, so cherry is probably the right choice.

[Greg Berlin]

It almost looks like the plow plane has a removable nose piece to also act as a bullnose plow plane like the old Stanley 41's (I think that's the number???). Would be a nice feature to set it apart from the lee valley since a lot of people try to incorporate stopped grooves into their work. This would make it easier to do stopped grooves like on a dovetailed carcass. Drill a 1/4 hole to depth of the groove you want and plow into the groove.

[Mike Brady]

"I was disappointed that LN didn't decide to do something fancy with the casting."

Response: Actually, the plane does have some nice scroll casting work on the left-hand side of the tool. It says "Lie-Nielsen" in letters large enough to be incorporated into a floral leaf motif.

[Patrick Harper]

So they had a prototype at WIA 2013 and it still hasn't been released? Does anyone know their time table for this?

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Patrick, in an interview on the Shop Talk Live podcast, Thomas Lie-Nielsen said early 2015 for the release.

[David Weaver]

The scrollwork on the fence does look nice.

[Patrick Harper]

Thanks Malcolm. Now the huge decision: wait or buy the Veritas...

[Mike Brady]

I hear you on that. I have the same dilemma. I bought the Veritas tool and have used it some. I would strongly suggest that a wood auxiliary fence be added if you get one. It gives it more heft and a place to use your off (left) hand properly since lateral pressure is key to using a plow plane properly. The handle is small for me and I would only use this tool for grooves up to 1/2", most likely.

When the Lie-Nielsen plow is available I will definitely get one and most likely sell the Veritas.