Warren - need guidance for raised panel plane

[lowell holmes]

I'm impressed.

Come to think of it, I do have two bead forming planes. I think I need to break them out.

I've never done stick and cope with hand tools. It may be time to experiment.

[David Weaver]

You don't want to do cope and stick with hand tools, you want to do the mortise and tenon type like sean has done, and in my opinion the bead looks far more handsome than most or all of the router bit sets out there that just make a rebated roundover.

I like the look of seans doors (neatly done, but you can still tell they're done by hand and have a bit of a look of humanity to them) better than most of the shaper created doors that have a huge step between the panel and the bevel.

I'm going to make a plane that is of this type, it will create the classic raised panel with a step for the fielding, but have a movable depth stop so that the plane will make a bevel without that step if desired.

(and I'll add a nicker similar to the one shown - i lifted this photo from meeker's antiques)

panelraiser.jpg

I'm unsure of whether it'll be double iron or single iron, but probably double iron, and I'll make it askew like the one shown and rather than having the iron diagonally at the top toward the edge like a badger plane (a spot that always causes trouble), I'm just going to relieve the bottom of the plane on the right side of the mouth just enough to make the step on a raised panel and no more, and put a brass wear plate in front of the mouth (in my experience, most panel raises and badger planes become troublesome to use once the corner of the mouth starts to wear, and it erodes much more quickly than the rest of the mouth. I don't love the idea of putting unneeded metal on the plane, but it will protect the integrity of the mouth at the front corner.

I don't need this plane at all, but I do have the desire to make planes. I just have to think about what they're going to do and how for a while, because I have no interest in making junk planes.

I also don't like making fixed width or fixed size planes, as in I don't want to make various raised panel planes that cut specifically one shape and have no ability to do anything other than the exact same profile every single time.

[Sean Hughto]

For a while, years back, I coveted the idea of an adjustable panel raising plane. I even asked Lee Richmond (The Best Things) to look for one for me on a tool buying trip he was taking to the UK. He said he had found many in the past and that they were popular sellers. I don't have one, so my best guess is that he didn't find one that suited me on that particular trip. And I lost interest once I made a few doors myself. If I was pumping out solid wood paneled interior doors or board room framed paneling like back in the day, I can certainly see the value of a paneling plane. But for furniture, not so much. It's too variable, and the difference slight variations in proportion make to a clumsy or elegant result too great. You also face cross grain and against the grain challenges as you form the bevels that are easier to deal with for me using simpler more-varied sets of tools.

If you haven't made a frame and panel door by hand tools alone, I recommend you knock out a small wall cabinet or something just for the insights I think it will give you in perfecting your plane ideas. I made this little plane cabinet in a weekend, not because I needed, but because I wanted a vehicle for learning a couple techniques (ball catch installation and raised ebony pegs, sliding dt shelves, etc). It was time well spent to inform those operations on bigger projects. In a similar way, it might give you insights for the perfect panel plane.

[Pat Barry]

...I made this little plane cabinet in a weekend, not because I needed, but because I wanted a vehicle for learning a couple techniques (ball catch installation and raised ebony pegs, sliding dt shelves, etc). It was time well spent to inform those operations on bigger projects. In a similar way, it might give you insights for the perfect panel plane.

Very nice work! That right there would take me a month of weekends (minimum). Of course, mine would look primitive compared to yours.

[Sean Hughto]

Pat, thanks .... but I don't think anything could be more primitive than this with its through dovetails - quickly hacked out panel - and plain unbeaded rails and stiles. I suppose the ebony is sort of fancy.

It goes fast when you just have to make it hold water, but don't care about much else.

[David Weaver]

With and against the grain isn't an issue with a double iron. The rest of the problems are easily solved by making a plane that is designed for the specific use.

Finding such a plane used is unlikely. If Lee found you a plane, it's unlikely you would've been happy with it either due to design issues or just as likely due to wear problems. I have no doubt mine will work better than any I can buy because it won't have design or wear problems.

[Kees Heiden]

Sliding dovetailed shelves? Then I've got a question but will start a new thread.

[David Weaver]

Well, I ran into a real bummer tonight. I don't have a double iron set that's on the slant, so I guess the plane will be a 55 degree single iron plane so as to stay out of trouble. The only double iron that I have is already in a badger plane, which i'd rather not throw away just to get the iron. Though it's an option.

I'd so much rather have a 45 degree panel plane with a double iron than 55 with a single iron that it's not remotely humorous, but I guess that's just the way it goes.

[Steve Voigt]

Well, I ran into a real bummer tonight. I don't have a double iron set that's on the slant, so I guess the plane will be a 55 degree single iron plane so as to stay out of trouble. The only double iron that I have is already in a badger plane, which i'd rather not throw away just to get the iron. Though it's an option.

I'd so much rather have a 45 degree panel plane with a double iron than 55 with a single iron that it's not remotely humorous, but I guess that's just the way it goes.

I know I've posted this before, but Lars Parrington had a nice thread on WC about turning a transitional double iron plane into a panel raiser. He did a nice job of shaping the chipbreaker to match the iron's profile. You know the drill about posting links, but google will turn it up fast.

Anyway, if you have a transitional, or can pick one up on the auction site, you could cannibalize the iron.

[David Weaver]

I gather the transitional in its entirety was used?

I just would like to build the entire plane nicker and all with early 19th century style, so I may end up building two - one with a single iron, and if I can find a dilapidated plane eventually, one with a double iron, too.

FWIW, the john bell panel raiser I had a long while ago was single iron, but it had too much mouth erosion to ever feed well. That was a bummer, one I'll prevent. Since I'll be preventing mouth erosion with a brass wear plate, I'll actually be able to make the mouth of the plane fairly tight. Something on the order of 4 thousandths is necessary to really make a single iron tearout proof, but a hundredth will allow a plane that cleans up coarse bevel work and does a decent job.

I, fortunately, have one good single iron plane on hand to eyeball if I have any lingering questions about the abutment setup.

[David Weaver]

One last surprising find - a raised panel plane that makes the tongue, and not a new one. It's still limited to making one size bevel, though. It looks like the iron is housed like a badger plane, and not like I'm thinking of making (which would essentially be more similar to a regular bench plane with the side let up in how large the step is between the flat panel and the bevel.

http://www.thebestthings.com/oldtool...cs/wp91118.jpg

[Richard Hutchings]

I know this is a bit of an old thread but that picture is making crazy. I want it.

[David Weaver]

Which one, the panel raiser above? There's a really nice one on ebay that simon sent me a picture of.



111530395944

It went for big bucks (but did sell). It's a nice source of pictures for anyone who wants to build one.

The other picture I linked is from TBT and that one is $345, way outside of my price range!