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Thread: Saw nib

  1. #1
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    Saw nib

    I just bought some 1095 blue spring steel and have been planing on making a panel saw.

    This evening I was looking at images of some older saws for ideas when my wife walked in and started lookin at them.
    My wife is not really interested in woodworking. Sometimes she will try one of my tools out for the fun of it but just because it looks like fun and she is curious and enjoys trying things.

    She noticed the nib on the end of the saws I was looking at and asked what they were for.
    I told here no one really knows for sure and that it may have had a purpose at one time, but many think it is just ornamental.

    She told me if it were her, she would turn the saw upside down and use it to start a slot in the wood. I couldn't help but laugh and told here thats why so many saws have the nib broken off. But if my wife comes to that conclusion without ever reading or hearing about a nib, then maybe there is something to it (my wife is a scientist, and far brighter than I can ever hope to be, so I take what she says seriously).

    As I am planning my panel saw, I am a bit torn. If I really thought a nib had a good purpose, I would put one on, but if it is just for ornamentation, I honestly do not find them very attractive. Kind of the same way I would view a wart on my nose. Sure, I could live with it, but would not choose to have one given a choice.
    Last edited by Jeff Wittrock; 11-13-2014 at 8:20 PM.

  2. The only purpose for a nib I have heard of that makes even the slightest bit of sense is that it serves to alert you when you have over withdrawn the saw from the kerf (or are about to) to hopefully avert jamming the tip and kinking the saw.

    Even in ancient texts they say it is purely ornamental.

  3. #3
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    The nib is used to hold a string so it doesn't slip off the end of the blade. There is a string at each end of a slotted strip of wood. It covers the teeth of the saw so it won't cut up other tools in the toolbox. Or,a basket which 18th. C. carpenters used to carry their tools in. The other end of the strip of wood has a string that loops over the bottom of the saw's handle.

    Old time tool makers were very frugal. They did not even supply chisels with handles,or saws that were sharpened ready to use. They expected the tradesman to be able to sharpen his saw and make handles,etc.. They did not waste time making useless nibs on saws.

    Nibs are always round. They did not serve to "cut nails",be a "front sight"(Ha!! That one is really ridiculous),or any of the other silly things ascribed to them.
    Last edited by george wilson; 11-13-2014 at 8:56 PM.

  4. #4
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    As I do much work out side in front of the garage in nice weather, and without a shirt, I contend the nib is for safely scratching your back without looking like a cat attacked you, if you were to use the teeth edge of the saw.
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

  5. #5
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    Ahhh another nib thread. I have actually see people get angry over this topic. Perhaps some guy was making a saw, and being a real jerk he said, "I think I'll leave this little nib just so that 250 years from now, after the Internet is invented, people can argue about it!"

    On a serious note, I am so glad to see George supports my theory that a nib is there to hold the saw sheath- usually just a piece of wood with a string at each end. I believe the same reasoning explains the notch you find in most saw handles.

    image is from this site and credited to Sidney Switzer. http://www.wkfinetools.com/hUS-saws/...ingMag-NIB.asp
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #6
    Here I have to include an image of one of these old Dutch saws again. It doesn't just have a nib, it has a rather elaborated nose decoration. The handle of this saw ain't bad either. I really think the nib was ornamental. Many tools at that time had ornamentation. Especially on the European continent, for example nicely carved handplanes were quite widespread.



    http://www.openluchtmuseum.nl/ontdek...istoolgreep-4/

  7. #7
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    In my opinion (which is worth very little on the open market), there is little decoration from a nib. I would say Kees' example is more a decorative nib for tying the string to as opposed to a plain one. In fact, the "wings" on that nib would help keep the string from coming off.

    Not arguing spitefully, just respectfully disagreeing. When I die, I do intend to find the guy who made the first nib and ask him what it was for.

    Another theory- it was for shooting rubber bands at other sawyers.

  8. #8
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    To be fair, Kees' example has a nib and a hole. Although the hole could have been drilled later on by some owner to hang the saw with, if it were drilled by the maker then certainly there wouldn't be much need for a nib.

    The plot thickens.

  9. #9
    There are more of these saws with a hole in the same position. So I think it could very well be original.

  10. #10
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    English tools tended to be much less decorated than continental examples. Those found on the Mary Rose had no decoration at all. Even the molding planes were just open sided,with the wedge sawn in rather than mortised. The iron parts perished,so no blades survived to examine. But,no effort at all was wasted on ornamentation.

    Kee's example could have been owner added to show pride of ownership,or as a way to prove who owned the saw if he had no stamp to mark it with(or was illiterate). No way of really knowing. But,Continental tools were definitely more ornamental than English. England was always the last place for culture to reach,being the farthest West from other countries. Certainly this definitely applies to harpsichord making. That started in Italy,and spread West. Henry VIII had to import Flemish armor makers to start armor making in England,at the tail end of the armor period. He was embarrassed by the gift of a very elaborate suit of armor by Maximilian of Austria,which even had steel eyeglasses on it. I saw it in the Tower of London. It said"Look what my guys can do,and your's cannot" to Henry. The English did not make fine guns until Hugenot gunsmiths settled there. Previous English guns were crude and awkward by comparison.

    They dug up an old saw at Jamestown,which had a large ogee cut into the end of the blade. It could have been a place to tie a string. No way of knowing if the saw was English or European as far as I can remember.

    I saw an old jointer plane which was kept in a tool box next to the saw. It had rip saw teeth marks thoroughly impressed down its side because no stick was put over the saw's teeth. You could clearly tell the TPI on the saw,so clearly were they impressed. If you have ever ridden in a farm type horse drawn wagon,you have an idea how jarring the ride was. Especially on cobble stones.

    Who ever owned those tools was too lazy to take proper care of them. The other workers probably ridiculed him.


    THERE IS NO DEFINITIVE PROOF OF HOW THE NIB WAS USED. THIS MAY GO ON FOR 10 PAGES. I learned what I know of this from old Mr. Simms,who was in his 70's in 1970. He was the sole furniture restorer in the museum at that time. This is how him and his fellows used the nib many years ago. Roy Underhill has his chest now.
    Last edited by george wilson; 11-14-2014 at 9:21 AM.

  11. #11
    Yeah, as long as we don't find paintings or drawings or other artefacts with a saw equiped like that, it all remains a theory.

  12. #12
    So four uses:
    Decoration.
    identification.
    sheath tying.
    kink prevention.


    Any more?

  13. #13
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    Any more?
    There is a half baked idea about how it can be rested against a nail and then a pencil placed between saw teeth can be used to scribe an arc or a circle. After all, how often does a tradesman forget to bring a compass to the job site?

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  14. #14
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    That's a new one,Jim. And,how awkward would that be? People can think up more B.S. than they can think up fact.

  15. #15
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    I just don't buy the idea of it being there to tie on a sheath. I simple indentation would be far more practical, after all, to put the nib on there requires removing a lot of material - not the easiest thing to do. No, that thing is a nicker for sure. That's the only explanation that has ever made any sense. I wonder what Warren thinks?

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