Saw nib

[Jim Koepke]

then nib is an entirely wrong term.

Discussing the use of a relatively useless ornamentation is one thing.

Then getting into a discussion about what it should be called?

How the devil can you use the nicker to scribe a line? I'd like to see anyone get the nicker down on the wood since it is flush or below the level of the saw's back.

My having tried this once after someone suggested it gives me the impression of anyone who suggests this use hasn't tried it.

Until someone comes up with a historical reference document, it seems using it as a string holder for the tooth cover is in reality the best use.

jtk

[george wilson]

I think several people who haven't tried some of the suggested uses have posted ideas!!

Very surprised that some supposed "historic oriented" user of woodworking tools would post something totally impractical,though.

I challenge everyone to file all of their saw's teeth into the shape of a nib,and try to get HUNDREDS of them to cut wood. Let alone expecting ONE nib to do so!!!

My idea of it being a holder for a stick to protect the teeth(and other tools) came from old mr. Simms,whose toolbox Roy had on his show. He was in his late 70's in 1970,when I was 29 and first was at Williamsburg. He was at work way back years ago,when finish carpenters did real finish carpentry,like fine wood paneling,etc.. He said they used to do it. It was common for carpenters to carry their tools in baskets,as illogical as that might seem,that's what they did. I guess the baskets were light weight. How long would a basket last with naked saw teeth rustling about? How well would the other tools have fared? How well would the saw teeth have fared,rubbing against other metal tools?



I have no one 250 years old to quote. Mr. Simms is the best I can do.

[steven c newman]

Quick answer: have someone with a saw that has a nib, try all the suggestion made. and then report back as to the results?

BTW: I do happen to have a No.7 with nib.....

As for the shape of the nib being used to score a line.....I happened to have a #78 rebate plane with the "nickers". Only one is sharpened to cut a line. Ever try to use the ones that aren't? Don't work too well, do it?

[John Coloccia]

Why didn't they just file a notch in the saw? I don't doubt that your explanation could very well be right, and even if it's not I don't doubt that it was used like that regardless, but it seems like an awful lot of work for just that purpose. I also don't buy the idea that it's there for decoration because frankly, I think it's quite ugly and tacky. I can't imagine that someone ever though to themselves, "You know what would make this look nicer? A big pimple, right here at the end where you can stare at it all day long while you're sawing." The handles are ornate, but I've seen professional woodcarvers work. I'll bet that guys knocking those out all day, every day, could make a beautiful tote in their sleep in the time it takes me to cook dinner.

[Jim Koepke]

Quick answer: have someone with a saw that has a nib, try all the suggestion made. and then report back as to the results?

It seems the idea of using to launch rubber bands is out since the nib appears in drawings before the rubber band was patented. Of course some will argue the case for "build it and the band will arrive."

It seems in all the cleverness of mankind, one man added a little decorative detail to his saws. Then a few workers with strings and sticks put it to good use to cover the teeth of their saws.

All other uses seem to come off as half baked. Whereas the string holding a stick appears to have been fully baked.

At least it is keeping me warm in the house instead of freezing out in the shop building a tea cabinet for SWMBO.

jtk

[george wilson]

I don't have a picture to post,but I have seen a picture of a saw dug up at Jamestown(I think). It had a large ogee on the nose. It started out as a big notch,then swelled up and swooped down to the rounded off tip of the saw. It looked very likely that the later nicker was a much shrunk up evolution of that 17th. C. nose. The notch in the ogee was still quite suitable for tying a string in.

The late 18th. C. Kenyon saws we copied still had the well rounded off nose,but also the small nicker like later 19th. C. and early 20th. C.'s.

I was just out in the shop making an A2 steel punch and die set for my wife. It is a parallelogram shape to be the reverse of one I made years ago. She wants to make pairs of earrings. We serve our wives differently!!

[Ron Bontz]

SO I am guessing this would be considered useless. Optional.JPGI still like it though. What year did this come from?

[David Weaver]

What year did this come from?

I'm guessing 2014!

[Ron Bontz]

DING DING DING! Dave WINS THE GRAND PRIZE. Sorry I couldn't resist.
I actually would favor the "string theory". Or even the steel test theory. Once upon a time they made steel in smaller batches and not so scientifically. Just as we do today, you take one out of a batch at random and test to see how brittle it is. If too brittle, all goes back to the furnace. But if ok. File that one smooth and leave the rest to the string theory. Or what ever use one can think of.
"I don't see why saw makers would go to this trouble and extra expense if it was purely ornamental."
Because, otherwise we would all be doing the same old thing the same old way and there would be no reason to prefer one over the other. Every "tool maker", like a furniture maker adds his/ her own style in the creative scheme of things according to the desire and resources he/ she has at the time. Unlike todays line of thought; not every thing was all about the gold coin. But I am sure even then it was a "keep up with the Jones" as well. If it was not pleasing to the eye, as well as functional. It was unlikely to be picked up, or prized as much as " the other guys". Enough said. Best wishes from the dark side.

[David Weaver]

Here's an answer google told me. I was trying to relay this to George last evening as we were talking about mickey mouse and donald duck on the phone, and I totally blew up where it came from. It's from a cigarette box!

images.jpg

(and no, this doesn't do anything for me in terms of actually understanding what they're saying. And I've used saws some!)

[george wilson]

You did get that silly idea across to me last night David!! It just goes to show that one should not get their educations off of cigarette boxes!! Not that you did.

[Ron Bontz]

Hmm. I would think that would only be useful if you didn't want to cut anymore and just clean out the kerf. The nib is thinner than the teeth, for what it is worth. I often use scraps of thinner plates to clean out saw kerfs, myself. Beyond that. It's back to square one.

[David Weaver]

You did get that silly idea across to me last night David!! It just goes to show that one should not get their educations off of cigarette boxes!! Not that you did.

I didn't get mine off of cigarette boxes, but close... I went to state school!

[Mel Fulks]

That cigarette box nuttiness is hard to top. But I will try. "During the American Civil War a weapon was introduced for civilians to protect themselve. A catapult type thing . Women,not wanting to launch their own stuff, often fired off their
husband's wood working tools. The saw was a much more effective weapon than a ruler, square, or even a hammer. They found saws to be the easiest thing to aim, ....since it had that sight nib. Some say that the nib equipped hand saws were
a major cause of limb loss. In one diary entry a Gladys Firebran wrote, "Fired a hand saw at a Yankee and parted him
from a LEG. The purpose of the nib is clear to me....but I don't know why they call the saws HAND saws." So George, I agree the nib was originally for a string to hold saw guard but by the dogs of war became a front sight, so you are partly
right. Hope this helps to clear things up.

[Jeff Wittrock]

It was used to attach a string, but not for attaching a gaurd as many think. It was in fact used to attach a string that was then used to pull the saw across a piece of wood to demonstrate the sharpening skills of the maker. Kind of like some guys do with their planes.