bowl gouges

[Wes Ramsey]

I've been turning for almost a year now with the set of 8 Benjamin's Best tools from PSI I got for Christmas last year. My wife is begging me for a Christmas list and I'm not sure I know what to ask for, but I'm thinking I'd like to have another bowl gouge or 2.

Right now my only bowl gouge is the BJ 1/2" gouge mentioned above. I've turned enough pieces to have a good idea of what my tools are capable of and have found some tasks I can obviously perform better with a different tool than what I already have, but since I haven't had the opportunity to use gouges with different grinds and bevel angles I don't know what I'm missing. Looking at the staggering number of styles available online is confusing and I haven't been able to identify any one or two additional gouges that will certainly do anything better than my one BJ bowl gouge.

The 2 areas that other gouges seem to excel at are faster roughing and better finishing - both things that I would like to achieve. Within those categories, however, are some that look exactly the same as ones touted to excel at the other. Confusing. I would like to find another one or two bowl gouges that will help me rough out bowls faster, especially the inside, and achieve a better tooled finish so I don't have to sand as much. I'm not at a level yet where I'm interested in advanced grinds with multiple bevels or different length wings. I have the Wolverine jigs and a Rikon SS grinder, so whatever I get I need to be able to easily maintain the angles with that setup.

Can y'all point me in the right direction?

[Marty Tippin]

As for roughing a bowl, a 5/8" bowl gouge will certainly hog out the interior faster - provided your lathe has enough power to keep the stock turning.

Finish quality is a function of tool sharpness and technique; the only way a new gouge will help you is if it stays sharp longer than the one you have and/or if it has a different grind that maybe works better with your technique. The BB gouges are good for starting out, but they really don't hold an edge that well. So stop and sharpen frequently if you're going to keep using them.

However, if you're looking to add to your tool collection, I'd suggest going for the best you can find, and that may well be the gouges from Doug Thompson at www.thompsonlathetools.com - yeah, they're expensive, but I've never heard anyone say anything bad about them. I'd start out with a 1/2" V bowl gouge and add 3/8" and 5/8" as your budget permits.

You might also consider a set of CBN grinding wheels for your Rikon grinder - the best deal going is from Ken at www.woodturnerswonders.com but the CBN wheels from Dave at www.d-waytools.com are excellent quality. I recently switch to the CBN wheels and can say with confidence that my tools are far sharper now than they ever were before.

[John Keeton]

I'm not at a level yet where I'm interested in advanced grinds with multiple bevels or different length wings.

Wes, factors I consider when buying a gouge are - the metal, i.e., will it take and hold an edge; flute design, will it evacuate shavings quickly and efficiently and will the nose profile accommodate my style of turning; polish of the flute such that I can get a clean edge.

Beyond that, I find that much of the quality of the cut then depends on the grind on the tool and the method/angle/approach used with the gouge. Some folks prefer a traditional grind without swept back wings, but then one's ability to do a shear planing cut is somewhat limited. Whether you do push or pull cuts also enters into the equation - both as to style and the grind. So, your style of turning matters a lot, which is why my gouge grind and profile may not suit the next person.

Lots of factors at play, but I think you will ultimately find that the speed of rough out depends largely on the size of the gouge and the flute design - is it large enough to take the size cut your skills will handle and will it clear the shavings quickly so as to not clog. As to quality of cut, I would think that depends on the edge on the tool and your approach/presentation to the wood more so than the brand or style of gouge.

But, I am betting you get all kinds of answers on this one!! Everyone has a favorite gouge.

[Stan Smith]

I've bought 2 3/8ths gouges from Thompson Tools--a bowl gouge and a detail gouge. Both are excellent quality and a pleasure to use--at least for me. I made my own handles for these tools. I'm not telling you which types to get, but only speaking to the Thompson Tool quality--as compared to some of my other tools such as Artisan from CUSA. Not that I'm saying that the Artisan tools are not good either. They have held up pretty well over the years. From my perspective, which is not anywhere close to being as good as most folks here, you sort of have to consider how much you'll use the tool and your financial situation in getting the "best bang for the buck." I'm being a lot more careful with what I buy now than I was when I first started some years ago. YMMV

[Thom Sturgill]

This may not help you decide what you want, but rather gives more background to make an informed choice:

Most brands available use M2 steel with differences in how they treat the steel affecting hardness, strength, and wear resistance which in turn effect how sharp you can get the tool, how long it will keep that sharpness, and even how many times it can be re-ground. Dave at D-Way and Carter and Son use M42 which has Cobalt added to the mix while Doug Thompson uses High Vanadium steel. Advanced steel making requires the materials be made into a fine powder before mixing to insure a proper mixture (hence 'Powder Metal' or PM tools). As I understand, these advanced materials NEED CBN wheel to obtain maximum sharpness, so upgrading your wheel might be a good first step.

On the other hand, there are many advocates for the carbide tipped gouges that lets you rotate the carbide to a fresh edge several times and then replace the carbide. Replacement carbides can apparently vary in sharpness and durability as well as price. Carbide can be aggressive and thus a good roughing tool and maintain a sharp edge and thus be a good finishing tool, but so can advanced steels with the advantage of being able to vary the design (grind) to suit your style and needs. A carbide tipped tool is what it is and requires you to use it the way it needs to be used.

Buying un-handled tools saves $$ and will let you get more tools for the cost of learning to make your own handles - fixed or removable - wood or metal - the choices are wide open.

[Jim Hipp]

Let me start by saying that just about anyone on here has more experience than I do.

I have 2 Thompson gouges and like them very much. I really appreciate that Doug gives explicit directions on how to sharpen them which is a big help when first starting out. When I didn't follow his directions one of them got so screwed up that I couldn't recover. I sent it to Doug and he was happy to fix it for me.

I also have a fingernail grind that is not from Thompson and I find I use it a lot. It did take a while to learn how to sharpen it but now that is behind me I think I will always have a couple of fingernail grind gouges my collection.

[Michael Mason]

As far as the cost difference between BBest and Thompson, after I finally pulled the trigger and ordered Thompson gouges last year, I was pleasantly surprised to find the flute length was almost twice as long as the BBest gouges that I had been using. So they really cost about the same when you consider that, minus the handle.

Doug Thompson has a video on youtube showing how he sharpens his tools, he does NOT use CBN wheels.

[Wes Ramsey]

Thanks for all the replies! I like the idea of making my own handles. I have some whole, straight-grained hickory logs set aside for just that. And for being so highly-recommended the Thompson tools aren't really all that expensive. I don't know that my lathe would allow my to use a 5/8" gouge, so I'm thinking that their 1/2" V and U-shaped gouges will be on my Christmas list. I also like the 1/4" detail gouge, which would allow me a little more flexibility in making flutes on bowl rims.

[Reed Gray]

You can't go wrong with either Doug or Dave. The durability of the edges is close enough that I can't tell any difference. A 1/2 inch gouge will be fine for most work. I prefer bigger tools, and have the 5/8 gouges for most of my work, but I also have a lathe to push them through the wood.

robo hippy

[Jeff Gilfor]

Agree with all those who have already weighed in. Here are my two cents' worth:

+1 for Doug Thompson Tools (also very much like the D-Way tools). Both these brands are better than ANY of the big name more expensive tools.

Consistent and quick sharpening is a huge importance in turning. I would ensure that your setup is up to the task before you spend a lot of money on steel. CBN wheels are VERY much worth the money. Dave at D-Way sells the one's that most folks own, as he was the first to market them specifically for wood turners. They are excellent wheels, and good value for the money. A newer vendor with much lower prices has come to market. They have had good reviews. The web site is http://woodturnerswonders.com/. They have a great deal on a set of CBN wheels (80 and 180 grit).

I would also highly recommend that (if you don't already have one) you get a wolverine/varigrind jig setup. There are many cheaper other brands and home-made models that will do the same thing, but the original varigrind will certainly give you all the flexibility you will need.

Good luck with you Christmas list.

[Robert Henrickson]

One thing to keep in mind that a single brand of tools, e.g., Thompson, may offer two or more flute profiles. As John Keeton pointed out earlier, the profile, combined with how you grind and use the tool, will have crucial effects on shaving clearing. Some profiles can be easier to clog than others. There is at least one brand I simply avoid since their flute profile clogs too easily IN MY HANDS (not Thompson). Your experience might well differ with the same gouge.

[Dan Clark]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for an excellent thread. I'm a complete noob at turning - so new that I'm looking to buy my first lathe (probably a Jet 1221vs). This thread has caused me to think carefully about turning tools, sharpening, and sharpening tools. You are opening my eyes to the issues involved and lots of good solutions.

While I'm a noob a turning, I'm very experienced with using good tools and not-so-good (cr@p) tools. There seems to be common wisdom that noobs should not spend much money on good tools. I.e. learn and then make better choices. There's some value in that argument. OTOH...

A major problem that I've encountered is: when you're making mistakes, are the mistakes caused by the (new) user or are they the result of a mediocre tool? If you're an experienced, knowledgeable user, you can differentiate. When you're a beginner or less experienced, how do you determine where the problem lies? Is it you or the tool? I'd rather get good quality tools, and know that the mistakes were my fault and not the tool's fault.

I'm retiring January, 2015 at the grand young age of 68. You've given me some great ideas about quality tools. Acquiring the exact right ones will take time, but your posts will help me avoid making dumb choices.

Many thanks,

Dan.

[Dennis Ford]

I think you will very happy with either Thompson or D-way tools. I do not think either will make your roughing out any faster other than reduced time sharpening. Rough out speed is more affected by skill, HP and gouge size than brand of the tool. Any of the brands can be sharpened to an efficient profile and keen edge. The shape of the flute does make some difference; different techniques match up with different flute shapes.

[Prashun Patel]

I am very happy with my thompson gouges. I am even more happy with my cbn wheel. I think that made my bbs perform better too.

[robert baccus]

All good advice yeah. Consider buying best quality tools that you will use a great deal. Usually gouges but whatever and cheaper tools for those used now and then. I personally think Thompson's unhandled gouges are a bargain for the quality of the steel.