Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 30

Thread: Adjusting Stanley Planes

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Milton, GA
    Posts
    3,213
    Blog Entries
    1

    Adjusting Stanley Planes

    Derek does not seem to cover adjusting Stanley planes, so I am not sure where to find reliable details?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Longview WA
    Posts
    27,347
    Blog Entries
    1
    There are a few things we need to know before this can begin.

    First which kind of plane are we adjusting. A bench plane, block plane or some other kind.

    For a bench plane there are a few other considerations such as the type (date of manufacture) that can change things.

    Then we get down to the different adjustments, mouth, lateral, chip breaker and depth of cut.

    Here is something of mine from a few years ago:

    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...th-Hand-Planes

    As is often the case, new information has been added to my understanding of hand plane usage, but it is still a good start.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    9,467
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Holbrook View Post
    Derek does not seem to cover adjusting Stanley planes, so I am not sure where to find reliable details?
    Hi Mike

    Stanley bench planes have been around for so long that you just have to Google for information and videos on them.

    What aspect of adjustment are you thinking about? Adjustments on-the-fly, determining the camber, setting the chip breaker ...? Smoother vs Jack vs Jointer?

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Milton, GA
    Posts
    3,213
    Blog Entries
    1
    I bought a few Stanley planes, most are around 1910-1930 manuf. I have #6, #5, #4 & #3 regular bench planes.

    I am having an issue with frog adjustment. There is a brass wheel that I believe is for fine adjustment but there are two screws below the wheel which I am not sure I understand. There are the two screws that go through the frog into the plane body that I have been working with too. I am wondering if some of those screws need to be left a little loose so the frog can move, although the wheel seems to move the blade on top of the frog? I have read that a nice feature of the Stanley planes is the user can move the blade a little deeper or shallower while using them. I am just not sure exactly how to accomplish this. I can move the blade forward & down or back & up with the wheel, But I have a couple that need more adjustment. The left to right movement is easy with the lever, although there seems to be a great variety in how tight or loose the levers are. The cap iron seems fairly simple, just tighten the screw so the two move together I believe.

    How does one know how tight to make the lever cap with the screw through it? Does it need to be so tight it is hard to lift the lever or is loose enough to flip it easily good enough?
    Last edited by Mike Holbrook; 11-15-2014 at 10:40 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
    Posts
    9,467
    I bought a few Stanley planes, most are around 1910-1930 manuf. I have #6, #5, #4 & #3 regular bench planes.

    Hi Mike

    A few responses, below.

    I am having an issue with frog adjustment. There is a brass wheel that I believe is for fine adjustment but there are two screws below the wheel which I am not sure I understand.

    If you have two screws alongside (and below) the wheel, then you have a Bed Rock plane, not the common Stanley bench plane. These two screws are to loosen the frog for movement. However I do not believe that is what you are describing. I suspect you mean there is an (larger) adjustment screw and a (small) attachment screw. The adjustment screw is used to move the frog back-and-forth, which serves to open or close the mouth size.

    There are the two screws that go through the frog into the plane body that I have been working with too. I am wondering if some of those screws need to be left a little loose so the frog can move, although the wheel seems to move the blade on top of the frog?

    These two screws are used to tighten the frog to the body of the plane. They must never be left loose! If they are loose, then the blade will vibrate/move and this will cause chatter when planing. The only time they are loosened is when adjusting the frog. To do this the blade must be removed. The advantage of the Bed Rock style of plane is that the frog can be adjusted with the blade left in place (those screws I mentioned in my first sentence).

    I have read that a nice feature of the Stanley planes is the user can move the blade a little deeper or shallower while using them. I am just not sure exactly how to accomplish this.

    All one does is turn the wheel as the plane is pushed forward. Now this will be difficult to do if the lever cap is screwed down too tightly. The ideal tightness is a compromise between secure downforce on the blade/chipbreaker (to prevent the blade moving sideways), and ease of the wheel being turned.

    Whenever you adjust the depth of projection using the wheel, always ensure that the final turn is in the direction of forward projection - otherwise the blade may inadvertently retract itself.

    I can move the blade forward & down or back & up with the wheel, But I have a couple that need more adjustment. The left to right movement is easy with the lever, although there seems to be a great variety in how tight or loose the levers are.

    As you noted, the lever moves the blade side-to-side. The wheel moves the blade in-and-out. However the latter is also affected by where you place the chipbreaker on the blade as this moves the adjustment slot up or down. A worn blade will be shorter than a new blade, and this affects where you can place the chipbreaker. As a "rule of thumb", if the blade wants to project too far, then the chipbreaker is too far back from the edge of the blade. Move it closer to the edge. If this does not do it, then the chipbreaker may not be original (so the slot is out-of-ideal-position). Swap out the chipbreaker and see if this makes a difference.

    The cap iron seems fairly simple, just tighten the screw so the two move together I believe.


    Yes, but as I mentioned above, do not tighten too much as it will affect the adjustments via the wheel and lever.

    How does one know how tight to make the lever cap with the screw through it? Does it need to be so tight it is hard to lift the lever or is loose enough to flip it easily good enough?



    See above.

    Let us know how you get on.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Longview WA
    Posts
    27,347
    Blog Entries
    1
    I am having an issue with frog adjustment. There is a brass wheel that I believe is for fine adjustment but there are two screws below the wheel which I am not sure I understand.
    Like Derek, this first brought thoughts of Bedrock to mind. That is why pictures always help.

    Here is another post with a little help on setting the frog:

    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...32#post1156032

    On a Stanley/Bailey plane one of the screws holds a fork that fits into the slot around the bottom screw. This allows moving the frog back and forth to adjust the mouth.

    To keep things simple my suggestion is to set the frog in the full mouth open position and go from there.

    Once you are setting it up it will likely become clear and take less time than reading about how it is done.

    If you are grunting when tightening the screws you are likely making them too tight.

    Then just make shavings.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    South Bend IN 46613
    Posts
    843
    Just to kind of clarify maybe a little more, for rough stock removal you want a larger "mouth" on the plane. The mouth is the opening in front of the blade. For coarse stock removal it needs to be large for large shavings to pass through. For fine smoothing you want a very small mouth, which lessens tearout. This is why the frog is adjustable. When setting up the plane you adjust the frog for the size mouth you want and then lock it into position by tightening the screws; it does not move during use. Only the blade is adjusted during use, which Derek gives clear instruction on.

    The frog has two screws at its base, under the blade adjustment knob. The top screw is only there to hold a tab in place that latches into the adjustment screw on the bottom. The top screw does no adjusting. To adjust the frog remove the blade and loosen the two screws under the blade that hold the frog to the bed. Replace the blade and turn the bottom screw at the back of the frog until the mouth is the size you want. Then remove the blade and tighten the screws, locking the frog into place.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "You don't have to give birth to someone to have a family." (Sandra Bullock)




  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Milton, GA
    Posts
    3,213
    Blog Entries
    1
    Gentlemen, thanks for all the helpful advise and suggestions.

    To explain my confusion. The first old plane I bought is a Sargent #5. The Sargent does not have the adjusting screw and smaller "keeper" screw under the adjusting wheel. Also a couple of the planes I bought were not assembled correctly. The "keeper" screw which holds a little metal plate in place over the frog adjusting screw was incorrectly installed placing the "keeper plate" behind the groove in the adjusting screw instead of in it. Also the frog adjuster screw on my #6 Stanley is, for the moment, frozen/rusted in an inappropriate place. So long story short, a combination of odd factors was causing me to doubt what I thought to be correct.

    I have taken the #6 and #5 back apart. I have worked on the frog adjusting screw & keeper screw on the #5 and they are now functioning properly. The #6 frog adjusting assembly is soaking in lubricants & deruster. I think the #6 will be fine too, there does not appear to be large amounts of rust. It may have just been tightened way too tight. I am just going slow with it trying not to strip any threads. The frog adjusting assemblies on my #4 and #3 look like they should be in decent shape. I will take the 3 & 4 apart next and make sure the frog adjusting assemblies are functioning properly.

    Derek, I should have been a little more explicit in my description of the "frog adjustment assembly" on my planes. I can see how it might have sounded like I was talking about the additional Bedrock frog screws. Also thanks for the tip about chipbreaker placement and blade length in regard to adjusting the frog and mouth on these planes. The #3 Stanley arrived with a very short blade. I decided I liked the plane so I ordered a new Veritas PM-V11 blade & chipbreaker/cap iron for it and one for the #6 too.

    The other thing that I was concerned with on the #6 is the Stanley lever cap was extending out past the bevel on the Veritas cap iron which I though could be a problem. I think this issue may be solved when I get the #6's frog adjustment assembly working again. I hope then I will be able to position the blade and cap iron where they need to be. Currently, even with the adjusting wheel adjusted as far down as it can go the Veritas blade and cap iron are not nearly low enough in the planes mouth to contact wood. I'm not sure how the frog adjustment assembly on the #6 ever got in that position, but it is currently locked there.
    Last edited by Mike Holbrook; 11-16-2014 at 10:03 AM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Milton, GA
    Posts
    3,213
    Blog Entries
    1
    Whoever owned the #6 before I got it must have had vise grips for hands. I can't get the frog adjustment screw or the screw above it, that holds the "keeper plate" in place, to budge.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    twomiles from the "peak of Ohio
    Posts
    12,120
    One little tip I use when setting up the vintage planes I have:

    On the base casting, there is a small ramp-like area right behind the opening of the mouth. I try to align the face of the frog to be coplanar with the face of that ramp. I then have support all the way from the mouth opening up to at least the lever cap bolt. I use this as a "baseline" when adjusting plane's frog location. Usually, I do not have to move the frog again.
    cherry shavings.jpg
    even works for a 14" long jack plane...
    Last edited by steven c newman; 11-16-2014 at 12:30 PM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Milton, GA
    Posts
    3,213
    Blog Entries
    1
    Good tip Steven. I think Jim is alluding to a similar practice above. I just set my #3, #4 & #5 up exactly that way. I would do the same with the #6 if I could get the frog adjuster screw to budge!

    I am still playing with amounts of tension on chip breaker/cap iron bolts and the lever cap. The Veritas Stanley plane blades & cap irons are interesting in that the bolt that holds the two together can remove about all the gap between the two without even tightening it very tight.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    317
    If you have a heat gun give the heads of those ornery screws a blast, then position your screwdriver and give the handle a few taps with a hammer. Usually works for me.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Sebastopol, California
    Posts
    2,319
    Library. Library. Library. Your friendly local library will have books for beginning woodworkers. The basic adjustment of a Bailey-model plane is covered in most of them. Local library systems are less likely to have these two, but they're not expensive online: Garrett Hack's "The Hand Plane Book" and Hampton and Clifford's "Planecraft" (the latter no longer in print but available cheap on used book sites) also explain it. If you can learn how to read the early-20th-century British prose, "Planecraft" is an invaluable book.

  14. #14
    The best thing I've found for frozen screws, nuts and bolts is a product called Kroil. It is hard to find retail, but you can order it on line.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Milton, GA
    Posts
    3,213
    Blog Entries
    1
    Maybe I will give Kroll a try Dave. I don't have a heat gun, tapping does not work. I tried levering a screwdriver with a large wrench. I think I would have broken the screwdriver before the screw gave in. So far I can't get either screw to budge.

    I put the #6C plane back together. I was able to position the frog right up against the appropriate section of the mouth. Unfortunately the adjusting wheel runs the blade into the far side of the mouth before the blade can get out past the plane's bottom.
    Last edited by Mike Holbrook; 11-17-2014 at 9:57 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •