Veneer glue

[Adam Augustine]

I was wondering what kind of glue people use for veneering. Recently I have tried Titebond Cold Press Glue for veneer. I have have decent results with this product. Any thoughts?

[Chris Padilla]

What kind of veneer are you using? Commercial paper thin stuff or thicker shop-cut? I like to use the Better Bonds stuff from veneersupplies.com.

[Keith Hankins]

Go to http://www.joewoodworker.com/. Send Joe a note, explain your veneer substrait and use and he will take care of you. Tons of knowledge. Great prices on veneer.

[Larry Fox]

I like Unibond 800

[John TenEyck]

I mostly use Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue because I can buy it locally and because it works with my shop sawn veneer. I also use epoxy if I put veneer on one sided melamine. And I can tell you from personal experience, BetterBond is not suitable for use with shop sawn veneer at 1/16" or thicker.

John

[Chris Padilla]

I used Better Bond on my 1/16" black walnut shop-sawn veneer. I only just found out that Joe at joewoodworker (veneersupplies.com) said that I shouldn't have but that I got lucky with my choice of using black walnut because it is a pretty stable wood.

Where did you find it failing you, John, and what wood species did you use? My situation was black walnut on MDF. In fact, here is the build thread I did: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?92396-Tansu

I was at a class taught by David Marks a couple weeks ago learning about the double-bevel method of marquetry and inlay. He prefers Unibond 800 and the Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue for veneering because they dry to a very hard line although I can atest to BB drying to hard line. I once sliced my hand on it when rubbing it across a veneered panel that had bled through at a crotch point. He prefers the Unibond 800 over the Plastic Resin because it has no water added to it.

[paul cottingham]

Anyone here use hot hide glue? I am keen to try it for veneering.

[Adam Augustine]

I usually make small boxes with some kind of marquetry design in them. The veneer I use is unbacked. I get my veneer from Certianly Wood.

[Kevin Jenness]

Plastic resin glue (urea formaldehyde) is the most commonly used adhesive in industry for interior use. It gives a rigid glueline and is definitely preferred for woods that like to move like crotches and burls. Its drawback for a small shop is the relatively long set time and minimum temperature of 65-70 F, also slightly higher cost. Many small shops successfully use pva glues for raw veneer in an unheated press. Titebond 1 Extend gives the stiffest glueline of the Titebond products, and Vacuum Presssing Systems supplies a similar pva specifically formulated for a stiff glueline for veneer. Titebond Cold Press is filled with shell flour to reduce bleeedthrough on raw veneer. I have not found that feature necessary for the veneers I have worked with. Epoxy is another (expensive) alternative with a fairly stiff glueline, especially suitable for exterior work and thick veneers. It is almost guaranteed to bleed through thin veneers or ones with much grain runout, and the mating surfaces need to be sanded at 80# for good adhesion.

[Chris Padilla]

PVAs in general do not dry to a hard line although many people seem to use them with wood veneers. I think we should be careful about the word "veneer" and how it is defined. What is the max thickness for a "veneer" to still be a veneer? Is it 1/16" or 1/32" or does it depend on the wood species and its stability or lack of movement? Where is that "it's hardwood it moves" to "it's veneer it doesn't move" crossover point?

As an example, when I was building my Tansu project (see link above), I glued two 5/8" thick pieces (~16" x 48") of MDF together to prepare as a substrate for 1/16" shop-cut walnut veneers. At the time, it was necessary to only glue the veneer to one side of the MDF substrate. After pressing it, trimming it, and setting it aside (used the Better Bond glue), I noticed the next day that the walnut, facing up, had pulled the MDF substrate into an arc raising to about an 1/8" in the middle. I was pretty shocked but it made me realize the power of even a very thin piece of wood and the need to always balance the substrate.

I eventually edge-glued 1/2" walnut around the substrate and then veneered the bare side.

I have not seen any issues with this Tansu in the 4-5 years it's been in use in my home so maybe I got lucky using the BB glue.

[Mel Fulks]

Nothing new here,just distilling what has been said. The Weldwood UF type and the Unibond 800 are IMO the two best two MODERN glues for veneer. In a case where the work is relatively thin and will not be nailed or screwed to something that gives it added stability the Unibond is safer since it is water free.

[Kevin Jenness]

The success of gluing thin wood to a substrate depends on the characteristics of all three elements- the thin wood (veneer), the glue and the substrate. Door manufacturers commonly bond veneers of up to 1/4" successfully to fingerjointed solid wood stave cores, and it works because the core and veneer move together closely enough. When the substrate is a relatively stable core, like plywood or mdf, the veneer thickness must be less to avoid surface checking as the unrestrained surface tries to behave like the hygroscopic material it is but is restrained at the glueline from movement? How thick? Well, some say this and some say that, but I have had success with shopsawn veneers like cherry and mahogany in thicknesses up to 1/8". I feel more comfortable with 1/16" to 3/32" net as a compromise between stability and durability. With less stable woods like maple I would want to keep the thickness down and the glue stiffer. I have laid many hundreds of square feet of sliced raw veneer(.022"-.025") with pva glue without problems. I am not about to claim that it is superior to UF glues, only that it has performed adequately and was a reasonable choice given my equipment and conditions.

[John TenEyck]

Chris, I made a small table top using a 3/4" BB substrate to which I veneered both top and bottom with 1/16" rift sawn white oak. I used Better Bond glue and left it in the vacuum bag for 2 hours even thought the directions say 1 hour is sufficient. I completed the top and even finished both sides, which I don't always do. All was fine until about a month later when the seams started to open and curl; not a huge amount, but noticeable nevertheless and I ended up having to replace the table top to make it right. I tried to be nice in my first posting but, now that you asked -- I sent an email to Joe Woodworker about what might have happened and received a prompt reply that Better Bond was not recommended for 1/16" or thicker shop sawn veneer. I asked him why he didn't think it important to put that information on his website, as it has about any other information you might want, or on the bottle. Not surprisingly, I got no reply. So now I stick to Plastic Resin Glue for most applications - never had a failure. I've used Unibond 800 as well, and it works just as well, but Plastic Resin Glue is cheaper and available locally.

John

[Chris Padilla]

Yeah, it isn't on the veneersupplies.com website but it is on his joewoodworker site...that was where I found it. I guess the rift (wonder if quarter-sawn might've stayed put?) white oak still needed to move a bit. I've been fine so far (+5 years now) with my black walnut veneer on MDF. I have used the BB with some birdseye maple but it was commercial grade thickness at around 1/32" and it has been fine for a year or so now. It all depends! Fun times dealing with wood!!

[Jeffrey Martel]

I have been using the Titebond Cold press glue with acceptable results. Occasionally though, the glue will be forced together and create ripples in the veneer. It helps significantly if you clamp from the center of your piece outward in all directions.

That being said, I recently found a used glue pot for $35 and will be converting to hide glue for veneer work. I haven't tried it out yet, but I have 3 veneered boxes that I am making for Christmas that will use the hide glue.

This is all for non-backed veneer. Normal 1/40"-1/32" stuff from Certainlywood.