Construction question - legs as stiles

[Justin Green]

I'm building a teacher's slant top lecture/ standing writing desk and have a question. I have four "legs" about 1.5" square that will also serve as the stiles or corners for the upper box portion. I've joined the back and front pairs of legs with mortise and tenon stretchers and will have a stretcher connecting the pair of leg sets.

The sides of the box will be flush with the outside of the legs. No raised or inset panel. Should I take the side panels and cut multiple tenons to insert into the upper legs, or do one long stopped dado into the upper legs with the sides having one long tenon? I've already rabbeted the sides' so that they are tenon thickness. I'm thinking multiple tenons will be easier as I will only have about 14 smaller mortises to cut (four back and three front for each side) versus four long dados. I don't have a dado plane, so would have to cut the dados as if they were one long mortise with a mortise chisel.

Does this make any sense?

[Justin Green]

Sort of like this, but not inset...

[Brian Holcombe]

IMO, It's likely constructed with either housed mortise and tenons in which the tenons are broken up into two per joint or it's sliding dovetails.

You won't see the tenons individually because the entire side is cut into a housing on the leg.

Since you already have long tenons made I would likely cut them into housed tenons and also draw bore them just so that it does not become wobbly overtime since it's such a big joint and will likely be tough on whatever glue would be used otherwise.

[Justin Green]

Thanks, Brian. That's the direction I was leaning, including draw boring. Since the box I'm making is taller than the one in the photo, I would do three or four tenons into each leg.

What is meant by a "housed" tenon?

[Brian Holcombe]

Anytime!

this is a form of housed tenon;

http://stuswoodworks.com/2009/08/mak...housed-tenons/

[John Crawford]

Hi Justin:

I'm starting a similar project (standing desk), probably tackling it the way you are planning as well.

I've been helped by some plans that Roy Underhill circulated. If you have access, see his:

* Woodwright's Apprentice book
* Woodwright's Shop season 12, episode 7 (which you can find downloadable for rather cheap)
* A couple of fairly recent Woodwright's Shop episodes also treat standing desks (free streaming on the PBS site)

He does give some good images of the legs and tenons, and suggestions for joining the mortises on each leg, which I found helpful.

[Mark Berenbrok]

I made a similar desk in walnut. The width of the sides and back (at the back) was 8.5 inches. I used two shorter mortise and tenon joints rather than one long joint. They were also pinned. Good luck.

[Justin Green]

Thanks! So a "housed" mortise and tenon is simply not a through tenon?

I did watch Roy Underhill's videos on making his version of the desk. Awesome. I had initially wanted to dovetail the entire upper box, but on large carcasses with thicker stock, my dovetails just aren't up to snuff yet. In visiting some antique stores in my hometown in east Texas this past weekend, I noticed about a half dozen such desks. Not one of them were made with dovetails nor mortise and tenons. All were nailed together, and where there were drawers, only one piece had them dovetailed. I wanted this to have a little better joinery than that. Although I don't know the origin of any of those pieces, it really seems that antiques of that age in Texas don't exhibit the finest of woodworking skills. I'm guessing they were built on the fly for the one-room schools by local carpenters instead of cabinet makers.

I actually had a false start on this project, and made a stand-alone box from poplar and a piece of pine which did have inset panels in rails and stiles, intended to set on a dresser. Unfortunately, I made it too large, and was at a loss as to how best put it on legs. When I figure that out, I will use it in the shop to store tools.

I must say, my hand mortising is getting faster and faster and more square. 12 mortise and tenon joints on the false start and there will be at least 32 mortise and tenon joints on the new piece. My Narex chisels are earning their keep! If only my dovetails were progressing as quickly! All of my joinery so far is just paint-grade.

[John Crawford]

Justin: What are your plans for affixing the top of the desk to the box? I had been planning on a rough-and-ready pine desk with cut nails for the top, but I ended up finding some maple I liked, and I don't think the nails are as appropriate now.... So, I'm puzzling around with different ways of affixing the top. I'd be interested to hear what you settled on.

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks! So a "housed" mortise and tenon is simply not a through tenon?

I did watch Roy Underhill's videos on making his version of the desk. Awesome. I had initially wanted to dovetail the entire upper box, but on large carcasses with thicker stock, my dovetails just aren't up to snuff yet. In visiting some antique stores in my hometown in east Texas this past weekend, I noticed about a half dozen such desks. Not one of them were made with dovetails nor mortise and tenons. All were nailed together, and where there were drawers, only one piece had them dovetailed. I wanted this to have a little better joinery than that. Although I don't know the origin of any of those pieces, it really seems that antiques of that age in Texas don't exhibit the finest of woodworking skills. I'm guessing they were built on the fly for the one-room schools by local carpenters instead of cabinet makers.

I actually had a false start on this project, and made a stand-alone box from poplar and a piece of pine which did have inset panels in rails and stiles, intended to set on a dresser. Unfortunately, I made it too large, and was at a loss as to how best put it on legs. When I figure that out, I will use it in the shop to store tools.

I must say, my hand mortising is getting faster and faster and more square. 12 mortise and tenon joints on the false start and there will be at least 32 mortise and tenon joints on the new piece. My Narex chisels are earning their keep! If only my dovetails were progressing as quickly! All of my joinery so far is just paint-grade.

Nice work!

a housed mortise and tenon has an area cut out in the surface of the mortise side which allows the shoulder of the tenoned side to sit in an indention or 'housing'. It adds to the mechanical prevention of cupping over long widths of material.

[Justin Green]

Justin: What are your plans for affixing the top of the desk to the box? I had been planning on a rough-and-ready pine desk with cut nails for the top, but I ended up finding some maple I liked, and I don't think the nails are as appropriate now.... So, I'm puzzling around with different ways of affixing the top. I'd be interested to hear what you settled on.

Im not certain, yet. I had thought about building a table with the same dimensions as the box, then adding a trim skirt around the bottom of the box which would overlap the bottom of the box and fit the table top. That way, the pieces could be separated.

[Kent A Bathurst]

IMO, It's likely constructed with either housed mortise and tenons in which the tenons are broken up into two per joint......

Agree with everything Brian says, with one caveat: You don't say what the dimension is on the box sides. 2 tenons might be fine, 3 might be better - depends on the dimension. I did a 44" dining room table with breadboard ends - it had 6 on each end. One long one ain't the ticket, though.

[Justin Green]

Since I don't build from measured drawings or use a tape or rule to measure, I would guess that the sides are about 16" tall in the back and 10" tall in the front, as I wanted space to do two stacked, short drawers in the front. I used four tenons on the back of each side and three on the front, roughly an inch and a quarter long each. Four seemed like overkill once the sides were test fitted this morning, and I'm contemplating only draw boring the top and bottom tenons at each corner. I was far enough into the project that I did not used housed tenons, just regular mortise and tenon. I achieved a decent enough fit which will be tuned a little and then pulled tight with the draw bores.

The piece is planned to be very simple, for what it is, but though I might try a little beading here or there. The inside, however, my wife intends on using as a jewelry storage, so will have some drop-in boxes with dividers and whatnot. It feels a bit sacrilegious to build a slant-top desk for the purpose of storing jewelry, so won't have velvet or anything like that. Might use linen or soft burlap to make the ring bars. It's an evolving plan.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Since I don't build from measured drawings or use a tape or rule to measure, I would guess that the sides are about 16" tall in the back and 10" tall in the front, as I wanted space to do two stacked, short drawers in the front. I used four tenons on the back of each side and three on the front, roughly an inch and a quarter long each. Four seemed like overkill once the sides were test fitted this morning, and I'm contemplating only draw boring the top and bottom tenons at each corner. I was far enough into the project that I did not used housed tenons, just regular mortise and tenon. I achieved a decent enough fit which will be tuned a little and then pulled tight with the draw bores.

The piece is planned to be very simple, for what it is, but though I might try a little beading here or there. The inside, however, my wife intends on using as a jewelry storage, so will have some drop-in boxes with dividers and whatnot. It feels a bit sacrilegious to build a slant-top desk for the purpose of storing jewelry, so won't have velvet or anything like that. Might use linen or soft burlap to make the ring bars. It's an evolving plan.

Wiht 4 tenons @ 1-1/4" long over 16" - yeah, that lands in the overkill category, but causes no harm, just extra joinery.

Drawbore the outer two as you mentioned - leaving room for expansion via elongated holes / slots in the teenons, of course.

And glue the two inner tenons - not enough expansion hitting them to worry about, IMO.

[Justin Green]

Made a bit of progress tonight. Joined the sides with the drawer dividers (probably not the correct term). Not sure why the photo is posting sideways though. Thanks, Brian and Kent, for the advice!