Laser cutter for paper art questions

[Suzanne McNenly]

Thx jay. No issue re one at a time. Every single slice is a different size, and I do one at a time, so all good. Thx so much for the link. I'll check it out for sure.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Always somebody with a different view this time it's me

To be honest I'd say a Chinese machine in the $3,000 - $4,000 range will be the wrong tool for the job, the limiting factor won't be the power of the beam or size of the bed ,it's more likely to be the lower quality controller and stepper motors, paper in and of itself needs to be cut quickly to prevent the risk of fire or scorching, the cheaper Chinese machines don't hold corners or direction changes very well and you can experience "wobble" at higher speeds, sadly the strike current of the tubes means you have a lower limit to the power you can use so even at the lowest power you may not get enough speed to prevent problems.
Doing it for fun with a laser is one thing, trying to make it pay is something totally different.
The cheaper machines are indeed less reliable and require a fair bit more user intervention to keep things sweet compared to US imported items or other types of laser,(A DC Galvo would be best but it's out of that price range and that's before moving into RF based Galvo's).
Much of the staining on thin materials is a result of the air assist blowing detritus back onto the work surface, sadly without it, fire becomes and ever present risk so it's a kid of rock vs hard place problem. You can of course increase extraction power but then that can lead to your work going off on a jolly up the extraction tube

Overall and taking into account some of the potential and very real problems I'd have to say a cheap Chinese machine is likely to cause more headaches from a business standpoint that you may want to put up with.

cheers

Dave

[John Bion]

Always somebody with a different view this time it's me

To be honest I'd say a Chinese machine in the $3,000 - $4,000 range will be the wrong tool for the job, the limiting factor won't be the power of the beam or size of the bed ,it's more likely to be the lower quality controller and stepper motors, paper in and of itself needs to be cut quickly to prevent the risk of fire or scorching, the cheaper Chinese machines don't hold corners or direction changes very well and you can experience "wobble" at higher speeds, sadly the strike current of the tubes means you have a lower limit to the power you can use so even at the lowest power you may not get enough speed to prevent problems.
Doing it for fun with a laser is one thing, trying to make it pay is something totally different.
The cheaper machines are indeed less reliable and require a fair bit more user intervention to keep things sweet compared to US imported items or other types of laser,(A DC Galvo would be best but it's out of that price range and that's before moving into RF based Galvo's).
Much of the staining on thin materials is a result of the air assist blowing detritus back onto the work surface, sadly without it, fire becomes and ever present risk so it's a kid of rock vs hard place problem. You can of course increase extraction power but then that can lead to your work going off on a jolly up the extraction tube

Overall and taking into account some of the potential and very real problems I'd have to say a cheap Chinese machine is likely to cause more headaches from a business standpoint that you may want to put up with.

cheers

Dave

Hi Sue,
I have one comment to make, and that is that Dave Sheldrake loves Chinese lasers and if he does not recommend them for this purpose then they probably are not good for the application, he is worth listening to. It may be worth your while sending Jiten Patel a PM, he is also here in the UK and does an awful lot of paper.
Kind Regards, John

PS, I see Dave does have the qualifier of “cheaper Chinese machines....”, not necessarily any Chinese machine.

[Suzanne McNenly]

Thx John and Dave for the valuable info. Funny, I did so much research that I started to have questions about exactly what you brought up. Each sheet would have many 1mm holes cut, and I wondered if they would pose a problem floating around. Also, because the edge of the paper is what is visible in my work, any toasting would be an issue. Now, even though they are out of my price range, can you give me an idea as to the price range that I would be looking at for a better experience with paper? I googled the Galvo term, but I'm embarrassed to say that I don't even know if that's a manufacturer or a specification. I couldn't find much. I won't hold you to anything, but if you could maybe give me the name of a macine or two, regardless of price, I would better understand, and by studying those specs I would know which direction to go in. And I will definitely pm the gentleman you mentioned in the uk.

Looking forward to to getting a specific macine recommendation.

[John Bion]

Hi Sue,
Recommending a machine is beyond my pay-grade I just make things out of wood, acrylic etc with my machines and although I have played with some card/paper/board on my lasers, I did nothing amazing .... so I will step aside and let others who inhabit higher planes give recommendations.
Kind Regards, John

[Suzanne McNenly]

Thx john. I'm hoping someone chimes in with an example of a machine that would be good. I just need a starting point.

[Bill George]

Sue my GWeike Storm 500 has doors that drop down or open on the front, and left side. You can put larger items in to laser part at a time. The rear panel also comes off, with some screws. I have cut larger flexible items by just weighing down the material I want to cut and letting the other just hang out. The price was about $2400 and shipping was less than $150 to go 400 miles or so.

[Suzanne McNenly]

Thx Bill. I understand that you're explaining how to keep the paper from moving around, but are you also telling me that your machine works well with intricate paper cuts?

[Dave Sheldrake]

Hi Sue,

The choices are somewhat limited but something along the lines of maybe a DC Galvo laser (NOT THIS ACTUAL MODEL) it's just an example

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detai...648429117.html

But that is going to put you in the $7,000 range right off before post and import costs, very little moves in these machines, just the mirrors really so corner wobble isn't so much of an issue, speed wise they are a LOT faster for cutting very thin materials like paper.

Outside of that then sadly it's going to be one of the smaller Western made machines like an Epilog or suchlike, something that can keep up good speed without losing corners or blowing muck all over the place, I'm not up to speed on prices but a second hand Epilog or similar western made could be a good bet?

The bigger and better made Chinese machines don't really make good paper cutters, the way they work and the need for air assist to prevent flaming is going to either cause problems with fire or problems with muck on the edges, you could go up to a $20,000 Chinese cabinet laser and still not be much better off due to the increased weights of the moving parts causing more noticeable problems for speed and cornering.

As John said, I'm a big supporter of Chinese made lasers but this is one of two cases where I can't in all honesty recommend one (the other is glass engraving, it looks terrible compared to sand blasting)

I have a horrible feeling a Cheap or even Expensive Chinese machine will see you back here in a months time with problems that in some cases won't be able to be rectified

Sorry it's not a more up-beat opinion but I'd rather steer somebody away from trouble than into it.

best wishes

Dave

[Suzanne McNenly]

Dave....excellent info. I understand 7,000 + is huge, but it's not $20,000, so that's encouraging One LAST question and I will not bug anymore. Are you suggesting that a Boss Laser would not be good....or are you simply unfamiliar with them? Even in the upper end? Actually....maybe they are the Chinese machines you're speaking of? I don't know if they are Chinese.

Thx again. You have all been awesome, and saved me a ton of frustration. I'm hoping this thread will help anyone else looking to cut paper.

[Matt McCoy]

Sue,

Your work is very cool.

To determine if a laser might be the right tool for the job, you might consider visiting a local makerspace; trade show; school; or business with your file and material. This would give you a starting point and possibly help determine a budget to achieve what you are looking for.

The point of my previous question was to determine if you were reproducing the same egg shapes for many pieces. Would adding another Silver Bullet or two speed up production?

[Tony Lenkic]

Sue,

You can find Chinese machine distributors in Canada. Are you in eastern or western region?

[Jiten Patel]

I don't really have much to add to this, but thought I would chime in as I guess I am the sawmill paper guy.

We cut paper and card all day long. I don't have much experience with the cheaper imports so cannot really say whether they will be up to the task. We use Trotec machines and they deliver, but that comes with a hefty price tag. Our two machines came in well of £50k ($80K) so they are completely out of the budget you have set but maybe a Rayjet may be a starting point if you go western.

Just tips on paper cutting, if you go for a carriage system, you want a machine that deliver consistent beam quality as well as a small spot size. You also need to factor in how good the actual carriage system (the x and y) id, as this will affect your cut (low quality carriage = terrible jagged cuts).

On the other hand, if speed it important, then a galvo if your best friend. Super quick, but you will lose some detail. Saying that, we have seen some newer machines able to acheive incredible detail and incredible speed. These come from China so may be a viable option. Here is a video of one that blew me away. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCXniHH6qko (I do not work for or am affiliated with them). I have seen the actual invitation in person and it did suffer from some serious charring which would be unacceptable to us, but I'm sure thats just a settings and substrate issue rather than the machine.

[Suzanne McNenly]

Thx. I appreciate all of the advice. Mike....another Bullet wouldn't help, as I'm not interested in increasing production, just increasing the level of detail I can put into my work....beyond that of a blade cutter. I think I will look around for a hands on demo in my area....Guelph...near Toronto. I just had a long discussion with the Boss guys. It is true about their great customer service, as they were really helpful. One thing I never mentioned is that if a machine is actually CAPABLE of doing what I want, I will get it done. I can figure out anything, and find a working solution. The machine just has to have the capability to do it.....even if it requires 100 hours of finessing.....but if it's not capable in the first place that is just a waste We shall see.

[Jerome Stanek]

I think Ray or Carole will cut a sample for you also John at Automation Technologies will