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Thread: Laser cutter for paper art questions

  1. #46
    Thx Jit. I kindof suspected that. I have actually changed my tune. I spoke with Trotec yesterday, and I now have the goal in mind of buying a Rayjet. Yes....2.5x my original budget, but I work really well with goals. They have a showroom about 40 mins from me, so I'm going to bring some of my paper down and they'll test with me. Even though I'm guessing that Epilog Zing is the same thing, the fact that there is help so close by is really important to me.

    So....as long as the Rayjet is capable, I will figure it out.....there is nothing I can't figure out....I am a dog with a bone when I have a creative vision The fact that they will help me in person before purchasing is great. Anyway, if I'm not happy with the results....no purchase....win/win. If I am happy....the long road to figuring out how to swing it.

    To everyone here....I can't even explain how much your advice has helped me. I wrote a note on another part of this forum explaining that. Truly, you are a great forum. Without you, I'd be sitting at home crying over my $10 laser

    Thx again
    Sue

    p.s. Happy Thanksgiving to my American friends.....never will understand why you don't join us and do in October, but.......nevermind

  2. #47
    One thing you may want to try is to limit "Square Edge" cut and put a very slight curve at the points, that way the laser doesn't hesitate on the transition and just follows the "curve."
    Martin Boekers

    1 - Epilog Radius 25watt laser 1998
    1 - Epilog Legend EXT36 75watt laser 2005
    1 - Epilog Legend EXT36 75watt laser 2007
    1 - Epilog Fusion M2 32 120watt laser with camera 2015
    2 - Geo Knight K20S 16x20 Heat Press
    Geo Knight K Mug Press,
    Ricoh GX-7000 Dye Sub Printer
    Zerox Phaser 6360 Laser Printer
    numerous other tools and implements
    of distruction/distraction!

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Anaheim, Ca
    Posts
    908
    Sue my two cents I have a 40 watt epilog and when my daughter got engaged we made invites for her bridal party of a boostia (sp?) with lace all cut out and they came out amazing and have done other small items my biggest issue is I have to clean my grates before hand being I cut wood all the time to keep from staining the back of the paper. The problem is you are well out of the 5k price range and in the 15k+ area. Good Luck
    Craig Matheny
    Anaheim, Ca
    45 watt Epilog Laser, 60 watt Epilog Laser,
    Plasma Cutter, MiG Welder
    Rikon 70-100 Lathe
    Shop Smith V510, To many hand Tools and
    Universal Repair Kit (1- Hammer and 1- Roll of Duck Tape)

  4. #49
    Thx for the info. Yes, I've discovered for this type of thing I need to vastly up my budge. It is now between Rayjet and Zing....Rayjet costs a tiny bit more, but Trotect is not too far from my home, so the hands on evaluation and support is worth it. I'm now in the 'figuring out the financing' mode. It will take a while, and I think I may do a kickstarter.....but we shall see.

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Anaheim, Ca
    Posts
    908
    Suzanne either one of those laser will be a great choice good luck
    Craig Matheny
    Anaheim, Ca
    45 watt Epilog Laser, 60 watt Epilog Laser,
    Plasma Cutter, MiG Welder
    Rikon 70-100 Lathe
    Shop Smith V510, To many hand Tools and
    Universal Repair Kit (1- Hammer and 1- Roll of Duck Tape)

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    1,840
    Sue......I went to your website and looked at your awesome stuff.....just my 2 cents, but I doubt VERY highly that a CO2 laser will work for you. I don't care how well you dial in the settings, the edges once stacked and viewed from the side will be burnt. As someone previously suggested, you might be able to sand it off after it is assembled.....but other than that.....it WILL looked burnt, not vibrant like when cut with a blade. A galvo might be different, but a CO2 will have burnt edges.
    Epilog Mini 24 - 45 Watt, Corel Draw X5, Wacom Intuos Tablet, Unengraved HP Laptop, with many more toys to come.....





    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have one idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas... George B. Shaw

  7. #52
    Thanks so much Steve. I'm happy you told me this info, and may potentially save me from an expensive mistake. I'm confused, though, because when I've seen white, laser cut greeting cards, I've never seen burnt edges, and I do look at the edges because I'm a crazy detail nut. Of course, that may come from really expensive machines, and master operators. I'll still go to the showroom for samples with my paper, but I'll now go with the realization that this dream may end.

    Much appreciated.

  8. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanne McNenly View Post
    Thanks so much Steve. I'm happy you told me this info, and may potentially save me from an expensive mistake. I'm confused, though, because when I've seen white, laser cut greeting cards, I've never seen burnt edges, and I do look at the edges because I'm a crazy detail nut. Of course, that may come from really expensive machines, and master operators. I'll still go to the showroom for samples with my paper, but I'll now go with the realization that this dream may end.

    Much appreciated.
    White doesn't show as much, maybe a little yellow tint on the edge if you dial the laser in correctly. Even though, you could still hit it with a single pass of a piece of sand paper and be good to go.

    Where do you live? Probably best to try it out on a CO2 laser and see what happens.
    Epilog Helix 24 - 50w
    Kern HSE 50x100 - 400w (rated at 479w!)

  9. #54
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    1,840
    Are you sure those greeting cards are laser cut? If they are mass produced greeting cards, they are more likely die cut. I would suggest contacting a few people that specialize in laser cutting cardstock (for the specific weight you use) and ordering say 100 2" circles AND squares (that shouldn't cost you more than a few dollars) and when you stack them see for yourself how they look. Again, maybe a galvo will cut with clean edges, but then you'll know that's what you need, rather than a CO2.
    Epilog Mini 24 - 45 Watt, Corel Draw X5, Wacom Intuos Tablet, Unengraved HP Laptop, with many more toys to come.....





    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have one idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas... George B. Shaw

  10. #55
    Hi Sue,

    It's a case of time in most cases,

    What you need is:

    1: Very high beam quality
    2: A locked or very low mode beam supply (resonator)
    3: Something that will run at higher speeds
    4: (Possibly) one of the nobel gasses to reduce charring
    5: A decent pin table or bed to reduce/remove backscatter from damaging the back of the card
    6: Efficient extraction to prevent yellowing of the back of the card from the liberated smoke.

    1: Beam quality, on a basic CO2 glass tube laser most of the tubes generate low quality , multimode beams (the shape of the cutting point of the beam) in most cases this won't matter if you are just trying to rip through thick materials or engrave materials where the surface roughness of the engraving is of little importance. A good way to demonstrate this is by engraving a simple 50mm x 50mm square then checking the surface quality of the engraved area. Much of the surface distortion comes from the mode of the beam. Try not to think of the beam as an infinite point, it isn't, it's usually a focussed circle of varying power across it's area that cuts to a different depth.

    2: Mode locked lasers are expensive VERY expensive, on the whole they are well outside of even mid sized industrial budgets with quality resonators (the bit that generates the beam) being in the several 10's of thousands of $$, usually limited to low power lab use and some of the less common wavelengths.

    3: Charring is simple oxidation, the longer the beam is in contact with the work the more time it has to dissipate heat into the surrounding area (a laser in itself has no temperature, it *causes* temperature by way of molecular vibration), a very high power, well focussed beam will cut through the target material quickly before the surrounding area has time to get heated. All materials have a yield point, that's a point where the amount of radiation they absorb is above the point at which the material turns to a vapour or gas, if you can reach this point quickly you get a clean cut but limitations on gantry lasers and the cost of power sometimes means you can't have both speed and cutting power due to restrictions on the mechanical components of the machine. Ideally a Galvo laser with a quality lens system will have enough speed to do the job and should be available with sufficient power to provide the heat/time requirement.

    4: When I'm cutting metals the gas used is usually a mixture of either Argon / Nitrogen or purer gasses of either type, all it does is provides an area around the cut that is saturated with a gas that contains no Oxygen, Oxygen is what causes charring (Oxidation) and any method that can remove as much Oxygen as possible will reduce that (it's one of the problems with land and air based military lasers that if used in space would be so much more efficient). I'm not suggesting people go adding Nobel gasses to their machines, it's quite an exact science and given the high pressures used can be dangerous.

    5: Laser beams don't suddenly stop when they hit the material, most times when cutting the remaining beam will travel until it hits something, if that's your bed or table and depending on the angle of it, the beam can be reflected back causing damage to the underside. I used to manufacture pin tables that remove this problem entirely but a quick look round the web will likely find a suitable version of the same idea.

    6: Smoke damage to the underside of jobs can be a pain, much of the damage in small household fires is caused by the yellowing effect of the smokes and particles in it. You need to remove this as fast as is practical to prevent the underside of the paper/card suffering the same fate.

    Overall a Glass DC CO2 tube is the wrong tool for the job, sometimes what some people will find acceptable quality wise won't make the bar for others, that will come down to personal choice, if you think the end result will satisfy your customers you may get away with it, in most cases it will look like an Ebay monkey has been playing with a toy laser though so it's really not something I would consider. An RF excited laser (epilog / trotech / ULS) will have a far better beam quality and usually a smaller dot, this will help and in most cases will put you where you want to be. A Galvo is a good choice but when fitted with an RF source can be expensive (VERY expensive) and will have limited other uses.

    My own opinion is that a Chinese machine with a DC tube just isn't going to make the grade (or even close to it) without running the risk of damaging your reputation from a business standpoint. There are other variables that no doubt somebody like Jit can tell you about such as the quality of the card / paper, it's chalk content etc etc, running even big cutting lasers I very quickly realised that cutting paper to any high standard simply wasn't going to happen unless I used on of my Galvo's or got another Western made machine.

    The last paper cutting job I did though I have to admit was 3 years ago and hopefully will be my last

    best wishes

    Dave
    You did what !

  11. #56
    I think some of my replies have been lost in the pages of this long thread, so I'll just re-highlight the salient points now:

    1. If I get any laser, it will be Zing or Rayjet.
    2. I will be visiting the Trotec offices close to my home WITH my paper, and examining the test cuts they make for me very carefully, and making my decision based on that.

    I appreciate all of these answers, as their detail has led me to the above two conclusions....and it's a great thread for anyone else considering working with a laser and paper. Thank you again. I'm all good now.

  12. #57
    please let us know what you end doing as this is very interesting good luck with it Frank

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