What qualities make a "better" chisel worth the cost?

[Mike Henderson]

For me, I suppose the main thing is the steel and how well it holds up (so I don't have to hone so often). But our ancestors made great furniture with the chisels they had and the steel was plain carbon steel, with unknown other elements. You can do excellent work with almost any chisel, as long as you understand its strengths and weaknesses.

Some of the modern steel, such as the powdered metal steel, will hold an edge longer than plain carbon steel.

Mike

[Frederick Skelly]

For what purpose, Fred? Morticing, paring, chopping dovetails ...?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hi Derek. Just for general bench use on my small boxes; e.g., to cut a very narrow dado in which to fit an internal divider.

[paul cottingham]

I have a set of Narex chisels that I quite like. What I don't like is the fact that the steel is inconsistent. For example, the steel in the 1/4" chisel in my set is like cheese. The steel in the 1/2 is marginally better. However, the 3/4 and 1" chisels are great. So I am slowly replacing the smaller Narex chisels as I go along. I really like the new LV chisels with the carmelized (or whatever it is) handles. So I am replacing them with those. I like the steel in them.
i think the Ray Iles have the same problems. I have a buddy with a 1 1/2" Ray Iles chisel, and the steel in it is terrible. I have ground the damn thing at least three times, only to have the edge completely crumble the first time he uses it.
Good stell means less time honing and more time woodworking. Sharp tools work much better, with less effort. Easier on my hands.

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks guys! Ive learned a lot from this discussion, just as Id hoped.

I appreciate you taking the time to teach me.

Fred

[Steve Voigt]

I have a buddy with a 1 1/2" Ray Iles chisel, and the steel in it is terrible. I have ground the damn thing at least three times, only to have the edge completely crumble the first time he uses it.

It's possible the steel is terrible, but I seriously doubt it. It sounds like your buddy's chisel just needs to be tempered some more. Are those chisels O1? If so, you can just take it to a straw color, or light brown, and it should be fine. Do either of you have an electric stove? If you do, you can temper it right on the range top, and you won't even have to take the handle off. I actually just did that tonight with an old English pigsticker. (a gas stove works too, but it's easier if you don't have to look at the flame).

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Derek. Just for general bench use on my small boxes; e.g., to cut a very narrow dado in which to fit an internal divider.

Hi Fred

OK, that is clearer now.

Actually you do not want a 1/8" chisel! You will be better off with a wide chisel, say 1"+. The issue here is not the chisel, but the best way to form a shallow dado.

What I would do is deeply score parallel lines, and then remove most of the waste using a chisel into and undercutting the lines.

This is a much larger version ..



A chisel will not leave a dado floor with the quality you may require. A router plane (with a 1/8") blade is ideal. Lee Valley sell small blades that will fit their Medium and Large router planes as well as Stanley router planes. Again, below is just an illustration ...



Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

The issue here is not the chisel, but the best way to form a shallow dado.

[snip]

A chisel will not leave a dado floor with the quality you may require.

For a smooth floor on a dado a router plane is the best.

As far as speed, for me it is faster to cut a dado with a large chisel for the edges and the small chisel for curling out the waste. A shallow dado can often be done in three or four passes. If a smooth bottom isn't needed the router takes me more time.

Of course as is so often the case, YMMV!!!.jpg

jtk

[Chris Hachet]

I don't have any "nice" chisels. I have some Marples blue chips, a Stanley Bailey set and a Narex mortise and a couple misc Irwin chisels.

The Marples are my hands down favorite. They sharpen easily and hold and edge well but it's mostly that I like the balance and handle shape better than the others. I dislike the large clunky Narex handles. I've read that some people have reshaped the Narex handles with good results. The Baileys are similar to the Narex handles but smaller and have indents top and bottom than make them more comfortable. The Irwin handles were designed by someone who never used a chisel but I was able to make a pair of skews of $12, so I can't complain too much. The steel doesn't hold and edge as well as the others but they are usable.

If I were going to buy a premium chisel, it would be more about the balance and feel than anything else. I've never used a Stanley 750 or the LN chisels but they look like they'd feel good in use. I like the looks of the AI mark 2 style. The thinner lands seem nice especially for dovetails. they "look" like they would be well balanced, not too long or short and the handle shape would feel good in the hand. But I'd have to use then to know for sure.

Marples chisels are fantastic-I have LN and Japanese chisels that I sue for really fine work, but the Marples are the workhorses of my shop. Being cheap enough to bang on without guilt makes them wonderful. they take a good edge, and keep it really well.

Chris

[Frederick Skelly]

Hi Fred

OK, that is clearer now.

Actually you do not want a 1/8" chisel! You will be better off with a wide chisel, say 1"+. The issue here is not the chisel, but the best way to form a shallow dado.

A chisel will not leave a dado floor with the quality you may require. A router plane (with a 1/8") blade is ideal.

Well, thats a " slap myself in the forehead" moment. Thank you Derek. I never once thought to buy a 1/8" blade for my router plane. Though thinking about it, I think Ill take a cue from you and make one to fit my small router plane instead of buying one for my larger one.

I still see a use for a 1/8" in my shop - if only to get into hard to reach places. And I ordered a Narex yesterday. But the relative price difference really got me to wondering about the 'why' part of it. I figured there were things I didnt know, and reading all your responses made that very clear. Man, I never once thought about "balance" and how that affects things. Or how the thickness and side bevel impact where it can be used. Length and weight - I think I see the pros and cons of those in the Narex Paring chisels that many of us bought from LV last year. But I hadnt considered most of the rest of the points all of you mentioned.

And in addition to learning all that, I got two more unexpected things. First, I experienced first hand the kindness and generosity of people here, when one of you PM'd me, offering to send me a couple chisels to try. For no other reason than the kindness of a mentor to someone far less experienced with hand tools. Ive never had anything like that happen before, but I'll remember it forever, I assure you. Second, I learned a better way to do a common operation on my small boxes. Something Ive struggled with using had tools rather than an electric router. Again, by someone from far away, who was kind enough to take the time to teach.

And all of you folks - so many that I'm reluctant to name names for fear I'll forget someone - do similar things here every day. Patiently sharing what youve learned, over and over.

And I think thats why I enjoy SMC so much.

Sorry for getting sentimental on you guys. But I think its important to "tell" people sometimes.

Fred

[Kent A Bathurst]

I had a full line of Japanese chisels - up to very wide, including a lot of 1/16" "'tweeners". I also have a set of Narex and Stanley plastic handles.

Wasn't using many of the Japanese so I sold those on the Creek, and used the proceeds to buy a couple LN and a couple Blue Spruce.

I'm with Justice Lewis Powell on this: I can't describe it, but I know it when I see it.

The LN and the Blue Spruce are simply remarkable.

[george wilson]

Paul,if your chisels are like cheese,it means they were either not hardened enough to begin with,or were tempered TOO MUCH. If the chisels were not gotten hot enough in the hardening process,tempering would have softened them too much. The last thing you need to do is temper them some more. Tempering is a softening process,to make the steel less brittle and more tough. I'd return the bad chisels if possible. If you try hardening them again,they will warp badly due to the bevels that make more surface area on one side of the chisels.

[Steve Voigt]

Paul,if your chisels are like cheese,it means they were either not hardened enough to begin with,or were tempered TOO MUCH. The last thing you need to do is temper them some more. I'd return the bad chisels if possible. If you try hardening them again,they will warp badly due to the bevels that make more surface area on one side of the chisels.

Hi George,
I assume this is directed at me. I was referring to his friend's chisel, which is why I specifically quoted that in my post. Paul wrote:
"I have ground the damn thing at least three times, only to have the edge completely crumble the first time he uses it."
That doesn't sound like a chisel that's been tempered too much; quite the opposite. Unless I am misunderstanding what he means by 'crumble'--I took it to mean chipping and flaking.

[paul cottingham]

Paul,if your chisels are like cheese,it means they were either not hardened enough to begin with,or were tempered TOO MUCH. If the chisels were not gotten hot enough in the hardening process,tempering would have softened them too much. The last thing you need to do is temper them some more. Tempering is a softening process,to make the steel less brittle and more tough. I'd return the bad chisels if possible. If you try hardening them again,they will warp badly due to the bevels that make more surface area on one side of the chisels.

Thank you George. You are quite right, of course, I mixed my terminology up. Comes from being an historian and theologian, not a toolmaker! I would never try hardening a chisel, and would only try tempering one if I could afford to chuck it out.
i would love to have the skills, equipment, and hands to do that sort of work.

[Warren Mickley]

What qualities make a"better chisel" worth the cost? Maybe the biggest factor is marketing.

[Jim Matthews]

I was taught to test keenness of an edge with endgrain.

If the edge could slice the endgrain of Eastern pine,
it could likely manage most tasks.

It took me awhile to wrap my head around that notion,
paring the soft stuff is actually more difficult than paring the hard stuff.