Edge jointing long boards, an experiment

[Pat Barry]

Jim,
Thanks for going through the effort to show this method. It was poo poo'd by the masters on a previous thread as unnecessary but I personally think this is the only way to fly (using hand tools). Numerous comments such as "you need to learn to see straight" - complete nonsense in my opinion - any two year old can see straight. A reference point for straight coupled with a reference point for square such as this method provides is a method for the masses. The masters can work unassisted and get great results - that's why they are masters. I'm happy being a hobbyist that appreciates a little help.

[David Weaver]

If you want to use a jig, that's fine. Dismissing comments from people who actually use mostly or only hand hand tools is foolish when you don't.

[Gary Muto]

Answer a question for a non-neander that is curious: What prevents the plane from cutting into the shooting board itself?

That is a pretty neat idea (a long shooting board). Very similar to my straight-line ripper for my table saw.

Planes (Except for rabbeting plane and shoulder planes) do not have blades that extend to the side edges of the sole. There is a little width (2-4 mm) between the outside edge of the blade and the outside surface of the plane side that will not be planed. Any part of the shoooting board above that would be planed but you still have that thin reference.

[Jim Matthews]

Jim,
Thanks for going through the effort to show this method. It was poo poo'd by the masters on a previous thread as unnecessary but I personally think this is the only way to fly (using hand tools). Numerous comments such as "you need to learn to see straight" - complete nonsense in my opinion - any two year old can see straight. A reference point for straight coupled with a reference point for square such as this method provides is a method for the masses. The masters can work unassisted and get great results - that's why they are masters. I'm happy being a hobbyist that appreciates a little help.

I found this to be MUCH simpler, and it's a crutch - no doubt.

My vision is fading, and it's difficult for me to get a good look at what I'm doing,
while I'm in the middle of the process. I can't see straight, and that's where this shines -
I don't need to. The shooting board defines the plane of the last pass, and that has been
verified as straight - a reference.

The chief advantage of this is that it limits how much I can "twist" the plane as I go.
The worst I can to is tip the blade toward the workpiece. By design, that's limited to one side.

Can I do it the other way?
Sure.

Will I, again?
Only if the board is less than 20" long.

Would my teachers whip my lazy posterior for making this?
* meh *

I do this maybe 12 hours in a week. It's a time saver.

[Stewie Simpson]

Stewie, if you attempt to joint an edge which is higher in the centre, long plane or not, all you will achieve is planing a curve. It is necessary first to remove the "hump". Long jointer planes only help when there is a low in the centre of the board. It is necessary to first create this situation.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hi Derek. What your saying is true but comes back to good technique and understanding what your doing. That is why you sight along the edge 1st to determine whether your dealing with a round or a hollow. That then determines your starting point. Its not rocket science. The technique has been used for generations of tradesmen. A shooting board on the other hand was never designated for that sole purpose and was primarily used for end grain work. Because others have abandoned the traditional technique is not the fault of the technique, but a lack of proper understanding and application by those that abandoned it. The belies the difference between a woodworker that had to utilize these skills for a living, and those that practice it for a hobby. One repeats and again repeats that practice until he gets it right. The other doesn't have the time or self determination to learn it correctly, and generally abandons that proven technique, and looks for another alternative that will remove a lot of the skill base.

Its no different to why their is such a healthy market in new designed hand planes. They are dealing with a market of primarily hobbyist that aren't prepared spend the time learning how to properly fettle their earlier made planes, and are some what drawn into the sales pitch that these newer planes will solve all your problems. That may seem the case initially when all the parts are brand new, but the primary failure of proper understanding will again rear its ugly head when that newer plane reaches the point of requiring it own fettling, and then its off to purchase a newer version of hand plane that promises them that elusive pot of gold.

I am at a loss sometimes in trying to understanding those that will only dedicate a short period of time learning a new technique, then when all is not as it should be, blame that proven technique, or the tool being used, as the sole reasons for their failings.

Heck. If you want to take away all the skill required, place the boards together with a slight overlap, and cut through both boards at the same time. Its a proven technique used in veneer work that result in 2 matching edges for a precise butt joint.

Life sucks sometimes. And if you want to master a new technique, there is a natural requirement you put in the hard yards .

Stewie;

ps. Derek. I do like the look of that HNT Gordon Jointer Plane. It looks superb. What timber is the body made from. Also. Looking at how the key way of the 2 piece blade has been filled in (brazed ??) I am assuming its not the original blade. Did the plane originally have a wooden wedge.

[Pat Barry]

If you want to use a jig, that's fine. Dismissing comments from people who actually use mostly or only hand hand tools is foolish when you don't.

Like I said, masters do not need any such assistance to achieve perfection. My comments are very relevant for those not quite so well endowed with handtool expertise. I thought that came across very clearly in my posting.

[Prashun Patel]

Jim,
Thanks for going through the effort to show this method. It was poo poo'd by the masters on a previous thread as unnecessary but I personally think this is the only way to fly (using hand tools). Numerous comments such as "you need to learn to see straight" - complete nonsense in my opinion - any two year old can see straight. A reference point for straight coupled with a reference point for square such as this method provides is a method for the masses. The masters can work unassisted and get great results - that's why they are masters. I'm happy being a hobbyist that appreciates a little help.

With due respect, i too am a hobbyist and i found the advice to learn to see straight a revelation. I personally appreciate the more skilled guys pushing me to go the next level.

[David Weaver]

I'm a hobbyist like most others on here. I just don't assume that I can't do something if I fail at it a few times first.

[Derek Cohen]

....
ps. Derek. I do like the look of that HNT Gordon Jointer Plane. It looks superb. What timber is the body made from. Also. Looking at how the key way of the 2 piece blade has been filled in (brazed ??) I am assuming its not the original blade. Did the plane originally have a wooden wedge.

Thanks Stewie. That jointer is one I built. It is not by HNT Gordon. Terry (Gordon) makes fantastic planes - not to ignore the fact he is a really good bloke (I have had a stand alongside him at a few woodshows, and we have been friends for some years) - so to confuse one of my planes for his is a compliment!

The blade in question is 3" wide and made by Berg in Sweden. It was a gift, and I decided to build a plane around it. I am not sure that was a sensible endeavour as it was an absolute bear to flatten. Really hard steel. Since I was using it as a singe iron plane in a small (36") cooper's jointer, I infilled the slot with brass ...



The lever cap came from Peter McBride, who sent it to me a few years earlier. Being 3" wide I had no use for it before this build, when the two seemed a match made in heaven ..



It is a LARGE plane, hence the fence as it is otherwise difficult to balance (usually used upsidedown). Here it is alongside a Stanley #7 jointer ...



Regarding traditional jointing technique, watch out for the review(s) I will be posting shortly on the new Veritas Custom Jointer Plane. This will contain a few jointing techniques.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Pat Barry]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbkdWMIBhNc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbkdWMIBhNc

(Note that in the second video, TG puts screws through the jig, straight into his bench... not for the squeamish.)

Hey Jim, these two links are identical. Could you please post the second link again?

[Brian Holcombe]

Jim,
Thanks for going through the effort to show this method. It was poo poo'd by the masters on a previous thread as unnecessary but I personally think this is the only way to fly (using hand tools). Numerous comments such as "you need to learn to see straight" - complete nonsense in my opinion - any two year old can see straight. A reference point for straight coupled with a reference point for square such as this method provides is a method for the masses. The masters can work unassisted and get great results - that's why they are masters. I'm happy being a hobbyist that appreciates a little help.

I can't 'see straight' so I use long precision ground straight edges. I find a feeler gauge to be more revealing than attempting to eyeball the edge in my case.

I'm trying to get the boards dead straight.
This was the first result directly from the jig - no testing.

The jointed edges appeared square and straight the night I made them.
Either I did not notice the gap when I made it,
or the thinner board "sprung" overnight.

Either way, this is a real improvement over what I've done freehand.
Fast, too.

Ten minutes to set up and shoot both edges, tops.

Nice, I saw Terry's video as well, I like this idea especially for shorter boards. Likely that the board sprung overnight.

[Prashun Patel]

Been thinking about this...It's not that I was able to see 'straight'. But I was able to see "curved". Spotting the offensive parts of my edge was easier than I thought - especially since the offenses for me are usually around the leading or trailing edges.

[Pat Barry]

Using the eyeball method, especially for relatively long boards, is fraught with difficulty and tedium isn't it? I mean, you are forced to constantly plane and check and plane and check, hopefully working down those high points until you get something resembling a straight edge. Now complicate that by trying to get two straight edges to use for a glue-up and nevermind the issue of squareness.

Now for some folks who are of the right mindset, wherein they can apply their artistic and crafty methods, coupled with a ton of experience and feel, they can no doubt get satisfactory results wherein two long boards that fit each other properly enough for a glue-up are obtained. I DO NOT DOUBT that this is possible. Folks such as yourself, Warren, George, and anyone else who wishes to be included in this master category can do it that way and need not consider that there are other, maybe even better, ways to accomplish the task. I submit that the edge jointing guide provides just such a better method (ie: crutch as per the experts connotation) for those less experienced, and or less willing to approach the task in a check and do/redo type of method. I do find such approaches as check and do/redo to be tedious and fraught with error. Having the reference points for square and straight will get the job done for me much quicker and much more accurately.

What I have learned from the masters reading this and previous threads, is that we should trust our eye, not trust the plane itself, take the time to enjoy the process -- to me, that's just not the way I prefer to work. Its far too craftsy with far too much variability, but again that's me.

Why can't we trust the tool? Because the blade sticks out of the tool sole by a small amount, so that in order to make a straight edge cut the user must compensate for the tool. Warren discussed this in some detail in an earlier thread as I recall. This critical aspect of the process, compensating for the tool itself, is what separates the men from the boys and is the critical skill in manipulating the tool that the masters have learned (school of hard knocks).

The edge jointing fixture which is the focus of this thread eliminates that issue entirely. Using the fixture to provide the final reference for straight means that the user doesn't need to be as skilled in technique. I think that's perfect for hobbyists content to be hobbyists. Of course learning to edge joint by using that very crutch will impede the real mastery of the process. I'm OK with that.

[Brian Ashton]

The blade in question is 3" wide and made by Berg in Sweden. It was a gift, and I decided to build a plane around it. I am not sure that was a sensible endeavour as it was an absolute bear to flatten. Really hard steel. Since I was using it as a singe iron plane in a small (36") cooper's jointer, I infilled the slot with brass ...
Derek

Curious to know how you got the brass to stay put in the blade

[Brian Holcombe]

I'll have to give that more practice, I'm very used to relying on a feeler gauge and straight edge after spending my early years in a machine shop.