Table Saw Choice 2: The Upgrade

[Jon Nuckles]

A couple of weeks ago I started a thread asking for advice choosing between a Grizzly 1023 or 691. I ordered the 1023, which had a short backorder at the time. That backorder was extended and I canceled my order. I decided that I am willing to spend some more money for a saw that I expect to keep for 20 years. May I ask for the Creek's help again in choosing how to spend more?

Here are my current options:

• Sawstop 3HP Professional saw with 52" fence and brake cartridge for dado set delivered for $3338.
  
  • Pros: (1) dust collection, though I might have to pay another $199 for the overarm connection; (2) resale value, though I don't expect to be selling it unless life throws me a curve; (3) what I am told is excellent fit and finish and customer service; and (4) a saw made in the USA.
  • Cons: (1) the high price, driven in part by the exclusive safety technology that I don't feel I need; and (2) the need to change the brake cartridge whenever I switch to/from a dado set.
  
  
• Powermatic PM2000 3HP with 50" fence delivered for $2600.99 during the current 15% off sale.
  
  • Pros: (1) based on my experience with my PM3520 lathe, I expect good fit and finish, though I'd like to hear what others who own it have to say; (2) heavy cast cabinet with included mobility.
  • Cons: I worry a bit about resale value these days, with everyone seemingly switching to Sawstop.
  • Question: how is the dust collection on this saw?
  
  
• A small slider. I really haven't explored this deeply and it is hard to find prices online. I also don't use a lot of sheet goods in the furniture I build, so I may be paying for capacity I don't really need. Any suggestions on what to look at in the under $4500 range, if there even is anything? I also have only a single 220V circuit with a 30 amp breaker and I need to be able to run my 1.5 hp dust collector off it at the same time as the saw. While I'd like to solve that issue, there is no chance my landlord would accommodate that.

Thanks for any input you can provide!

[James Zhu]

http://us.feldershop.com/en-US/en-US/Sawing/Machines/

I would buy Hammer slider, they have two sliders under your budget $4500.

In theory, Hammer Slider should run on a 30amp circuit, and dust collector is powered by a separate 15amp or 20amp circuit.

I heard some folks run Hammer slider on a 20amp breaker, but not sure 30amp would be good enough for both Hammer slider and 1.5hp dust collector, it might work though.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Be glad you did not get the Grizzly. I just finished fixing the worm drive on the one at the shop where I teach. I also spent last weekend fixing the worm drive. It has a c clip instead of a bolt at the end to keep it from overextending. The c clip comes off easily. I also do not like the fence on that thing. It is too short, and has no t-slots.

I am no fan of Saw Stop. This has been hashed out here before so just search for Saw Stop wet wood or Google it. They are quality saws otherwise.

I li have a friend with a Powermatic in a shop that has only two walls and gets rained in all the time. I am amazed at how well this saw performs as abused as it is. It cuts like a dream. Go with the Powermatic.

[John Coloccia]

Just a couple of things about the Sawstop. It's made in Taiwan, not the USA. Still, the fit and finish is excellent. I just bought my second Sawstop...a 3HP PCS. The brake cartridge thing is a non-issue. It takes a few seconds to replace the brake.

If I had the room, and felt like experiencing the learning curve, I would love to have a slider. I'd love a combo machine, actually. Maybe I'll have the room in my next shop. The thing is, I'm very comfortable making jigs and using a western table saw, and I really just didn't want to experience the learning curve with a slider because I don't do many simple, straight line cuts. I have an awful lot of jigs, and some special blades, that are very easy to make work on a regular saw.

edit:
meant to say DON'T do many simple cuts

[Mark Carlson]

Cool decision to have. I have a General cabinet saw and my upgrade path choices would be a slider and then the sawstop. I have a jessem sliding table which I love and a European style slider would be a huge improvement. The hammer K3 looks just about perfect for me. If you want a cabinet saw get the sawstop because everyone can make a mistake and I've heard its well made.

[Brian Henderson]

I have a PM2000 so I can only say from experience that it's an excellent saw. Besides, since you say you want a saw that you can keep for 20 years, why are you worrying about resale value anyhow? I don't plan to sell my saw any time soon and when I finally do, it'll be because it doesn't work anymore. I've never had any problems with the DC but since I don't have anything to compare it to, take that as you will.

[Jim Andrew]

There is an ad for a Minimax combo on the classified section, why don't you call and see if it is sold? It very well may be sold, but it is a saw shaper planer surfacer mortiser, advertised for 6000. If it had been last year, I would have been taking a road trip.

[Justin Ludwig]

I own the PM2000. It's a good saw with fair dust collection. I think the DC would be better once I tie in my cabinet saw to the main DC, it's current only drawing off the overarm and I have a 1hp bag under the table pulling dust/chips from the cabinet. I have to clean the inside cabinet about once every 150ln ft of cabinets built (that's up to 500 bd ft of solid wood ripped and 40 or more sheets of plywood cut up with a full kerf blade). Using a full kerf blade makes a considerable difference in chip and dust output.
Out of the box the table wasn't square with the blade. It's an easy adjustment (4 bolts and a dead blow hammer). I fought and fought the UHMW fence for getting it square. I was getting partitions 23-1/4" x 29-1/4" that were out of square 1/32". This is unacceptable to me. After fighting for over a year with aligning and realigning, I finally found that the UHMW was concave in the middle by .007 and this would compound as I broke down 4x8 sheets of ply. Last month I took it off and threw it away. I made a fence edge out of MDF and laminate. It's twice as smooth and I have no more square problems. I couldn't find anything online that showed people having the same problem, so I chalk it up to my luck. I'll be dedicating this saw to hardwood and dados when I purchase a slider or panel saw.

[Robert Chapman]

I have a SawStop Professional - it is an exceptionally well made saw with the best safety feature available. I have a JessEm slider on the left side of the saw and a cast iron router table on the right side. I build furniture and the small JessEm slider is all that I need. I know that JessEm doesn't make them anymore but they are around. I really like my set up.

[Clint Baxter]

I have the PM 2000 as well and have been quite happy with it. As stated, dust collection is okay, but can be improved with Shark Guard over arm dust collection, as I did. I replaced my stock fence with an Incra. I didnt have any serious issues withe stock fence but love the accuracy and repeat ability of the Incra. Only way I'd be getting rid of it would be if I upgraded to a slider. Good luck with your choice. Don't think you'd be unhappy with any of them.

Clint

[Keith Hankins]

Well, you will get a lot of opinions. I am a SS owner. I have the 5hp ICS and love it. Love the wide opening and can get my big paws in there easily. The design of the quick change lever for riving knife and dc collection for the blade. I think now they giving it away free as part of the 10 year anniversary. Get it it will be worth it. I had to pay for mine. Also the heavy duty base is worth it. Best Ive used. DC is great, cut is great, and don't worry about the time to change cartridge on the dado set, it will only take a couple of min max. The safety feature is worth it. You will not regret the SS.

[Frank Pratt]

I'm shopping for a table saw myself & have pretty much decided on the SawStop. Very expensive but it's the nicest saw I've seen so far. The flesh sensing feature isn't really a + or - for me.

[John Coloccia]

Their customer service is fantastic, also. My latest interaction with them is because one table extension came rusted and a bit out of square (bad day at the machine shop for sure!). It took all of 10 minutes on the phone, and they sent a new one out the same day. I think that was a Thursday, and I think it showed up at my door on Monday. Being my second SS, I've had several interactions with their customer service, and every time goes the same way.

[Earl Rumans]

I am not a big fan of Saw Stop, just due to their marketing position and when I got my new saw last year I went with the 5 hp Jet Xacta. I have been very happy with my Jet Xacta and Incra fence setup. If I had the money I would have gotten the Saw Stop ICS or a slider style saw, for the safety factor. At my age I couldn't justify the cost of the SS, or a slider but if you have the money and are talking about a 20 year saw, then either get the SS or a slider, like the Hammer or MM. One other factor to consider, you are talking about resale value but you may want to consider the Government factor. As crazy as things are getting these days, if SS gets their requested legislation pushed through, saws without the brake tech may become illegal to be sold.

[Jim Andrew]

40 years ago I did 2 years as a teacher in a school shop. Would have liked to had a sawstop in that shop, as the kids just could hardly stop themselves from reaching to grab the scrap that was cut off on the table saw. One kid actually reached in to grab the scrap and took off the tip of his thumb. Since I went into construction and cabinet shop work, I have never seen anyone reach into the blade for the scrap. After those 40 years I still have all my fingers. Maybe if you are a beginner the saw stop table saw is for you, if you can't resist picking the scrap off the saw. Personally I have a unisaw and a Hammer slider.