Excessive Stain

[Paul Williams 53072]

Guys,

I recently applied a coat of General Finishes Gel stain to a project I am working on which is constructed of QWO. I am unhappy that the color seems to be "too" dark. Is there a way to lighten it slightly? And if so, what is the preferred method to do so? Really appreciate the help guys, thanks!

Paul

[Kent A Bathurst]

How long has the gel stain been on the piece?

I would get a rag with MS on it, and a can of elmow grease, and go to work.

[Paul Williams 53072]

It has been on a couple of days. However, it is the second coat over a much lighter coat that had already sealed the wood to a much lighter finish. My wife tried to "doctor" up the stain with a second coat that now looks like paint!! I wonder if MS with quad OOOO steel wool would remove some of the excess stain and get it closer to where it was originally stained.

Man o man! what a week!

Thanks,

Paul

[Kent A Bathurst]

It has been on a couple of days. However, it is the second coat over a much lighter coat that had already sealed the wood to a much lighter finish. My wife tried to "doctor" up the stain with a second coat that now looks like paint!! I wonder if MS with quad OOOO steel wool would remove some of the excess stain and get it closer to where it was originally stained.

Man o man! what a week!

Thanks,

Paul

Try the rag first. THen the 0000 steel wool is a good option - - either that or the 3M synthetic pads - try the grey first [the maroon is kinda "heavy"].

But - the real issue is this:

Your lovely wife feels free to walk into the shop, pick up some stuff, and start making a mess?

Man - that would be like me walking into the kitchen or hte gardens and starting to muck around. My shelf life would be short

[Paul Williams 53072]

Yes,

She likes to help. It was a project for her too!!! I think the first coat of gel may of sealed the wood enough to make the clean up of the excessive stain a little more doable. Or at least I am hoping...I put a little MS on a rag and it appeared the "heavy coat" began to thin, but I didn't rub real hard. so I am thinking I can get some of it lifted and evened out. If I am lucky enough to get the finish evened out I should be able to put a coat of Arm R seal over it ...Right??

[Prashun Patel]

'thinning' the gel stain can be tricky. It performs like a hybrid between stain and paint. Some of it sits above the wood, but much of it does penetrate. Trying to wipe it off evenly may prove to be a challenge. There's an art to the swiping and dabbing. Think remove a little, then blend. You're redistributing as much as you are removing.

Know that if it does not look good, your plan B may be to add more gel stain and be satisfied with a dark - albeit even - coat.

I like to wait a little longer before top coating over gel stain to give it time to dry. The other thing to note is that if you wipe or brush an oiled based top coat (Arm R Seal) on top of an oil based gel stain, it may wipe and move around on you. So, you may either spray a thin sealer over the gel stain, or wait longer before you topcoat.

[Paul Williams 53072]

Maybe applying Arm R Seal, wiping, dabing and blending may work to achieve my end in lightening the heavier topcoat? It may be less invasive than the MS and wiping? The first coat that was applied had dried for several days before the wife "doctored" the finish with the second heavy coat. I think I remember reading that Arm R Seal can remove some of the excess finish and blend? Just cant recall exactly where I have heard this...Thanks Guys!! Keep the suggestions coming...

Paul

[John TenEyck]

Arm-R-Seal will not pick up well dried GF Gel Stain. I've used that combination many times; just won't happen. If the stain is not dried well then Arm-R-Seal will pick it up but it will make a giant muddy mess.

QSWO deserves a finish that shows off the flake. Covering it over with thick gel stain should be a sin. I would strip it all off and start over. And I'd reach some agreement with the Mrs. on the finish, using scrap. Or I'd divorce her so I wouldn't have to. Still thinking which is the better option.

John

[Kent A Bathurst]

QSWO deserves a finish that shows off the flake. Covering it over with thick gel stain should be a sin. I would strip it all off and start over. And I'd reach some agreement with the Mrs. on the finish, using scrap. Or I'd divorce her so I wouldn't have to. Still thinking which is the better option.

Brought your queen off the back row pretty quickly there, John.

On-message -

Gel stain's best use with QSWO, IMO, is to color the grain pockets. COlor with dye first, then take the gel stain and wipe it on, and wipe it off with the following hand. Leaves a thin "depth" of color on the field / flake.

And - you can go back a bit later with MS on a rag to lighten it up - dunno what "a bit" means exactly, but I've gone after it an hour later or so and it works fine with no real pressure - don't know the clock limit, though. If I were to read the can on the cure schedule, I might have a guess, but that is too much like following directions.

This is one of the more commonly accepted mathods of getting that old-time religion for A+C pieces.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Yes,

She likes to help. It was a project for her too!!! I think the first coat of gel may of sealed the wood enough to make the clean up of the excessive stain a little more doable. Or at least I am hoping...I put a little MS on a rag and it appeared the "heavy coat" began to thin, but I didn't rub real hard. so I am thinking I can get some of it lifted and evened out. If I am lucky enough to get the finish evened out I should be able to put a coat of Arm R seal over it ...Right??

I assume you have an "underneath" to try it out on first? If not, better make up a sample/sacrificial board - don't want to start digging the hole deeper until you know where you are heading.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Try mineral spirits or Naphtha first to see if it will take off the dark stain.
If it doesn't, then switch over to something stronger, such as lacquer thinner.
If lacquer thinner doesn't do it, try some Formby's Furniture Refinisher. (probably the strongest blend of solvents you can buy w/out going to a ketone of some kind)

Don't allow any of the above to really dry before going to the next strongest in line or it will "set" the stain.

Old Homer gets bad mouthed a lot (deservedly so IMHO, but) some of his stuff is pretty decent. The Furniture Refinisher is one of the decent things they put out.

[Paul Williams 53072]

Guys,

Great news. The stain wasn't very dry and I was able to coax it off the wood really well with elbow grease and a soft rag soaked in MS. Afterwards, I let it stand and coated with Arm R Seal and it looks really nice again. The wood work is actually window casing I made for the house. I believe the splotchy is actually as a result that some of my wood though quarter sawn, had some variance in the grain itself. I sanded to 180 before finish and when I stained the wood, it was a rather quick process so the flake was still quite evident in most all pieces of wood.

Guys, thanks so much. It sux being a newbie, but I sure do like working with wood!

Paul

[glenn bradley]

Those look great. I'm jealous. I am really digging that look.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Those look great. I'm jealous.

Glenn - No - not "jealous" - those windows on the top are "jalousie". Close, though.

Paul - you would not believe how close a match your design is to the OEM windows in a georgous mid-20's A+C house we had in Central Michigan.

Ours were birch or beech - very hard to tell the difference, but my guess is beech. This style throughout the entire house, with matching interior trim and doors.

Looks terrific!!

Glad it worked out for you - - no harm, no foul - gotta learn somehow, and that progression nearly always includes mistakes along the way.

[Paul Williams 53072]

Thanks guys! I have one room done including door casings and baseboards. It really helps to have a patient wife and a great wood mill close by to get my rough stock. I have them rough mill the really long pieces. The shorter stuff I can do in my basement. Which of course brings up my next line of questions. Regarding dust collection. I don't have mine set up now, however I am in the process of converting an old single stage Steel City unit to a cyclone unit. Do you guys have a favorite thread for this conversion, I am sure I am not the only guy to do this. Just would like a little been there done that guidance on this project.

No dust collection and a patient wife...see, I cant get to upset with her and her "Help" with the staining! She deals with my dust amongst other things...

Thanks guys, love this site!!

Paul