Cherry staining just a little

[Gene Davis]

Need to finish a cherry table to match Stickley chairs arriving soon, their #713 Central Valley. They say it is a red- brown dye mixed with waxed shellac. I'll be using Gen Finishes wipe on ArmRSeal.

I have some TransTint red-brown dye. What might I try doing. This Stickley finish is just a little darker than age darkened natural cherry.

[John TenEyck]

Get some cherry that matches the table as best as possible to use as finishing samples. Sand it to the same grit as the table. After the chairs arrive mix up a small batch of Transtint in water (I usually start with about an ounce of water) and put some on a small sample board. When it's thoroughly dry wipe it with some mineral spirits; that will approximate the color it would have with Arm-R-Seal. Chances are neither the color nor the hue will match. You will probably need to use at least two Transtint dyes mixed together to get the right color. Which two (or more) will depend upon what the first sample shows. Download the Transtint dye color chart and let that help you decide which other one(s) to buy. Make a new mini batch of dye (I count drops to keep track of what I've made.) and put some on a small area of a sample board. Keep adjusting the dye mix until the color is right, then adjust the concentration until both the color and hue are right. This can take some time and keeping track of exactly how many drops of each dye is critical to reproducing it in a large batch. When you think you've got it right make up a larger sample, something at least 6 x 10" and go through the entire finishing process. Repeat as necessary until you are satisfied. Then scale up your dye recipe so that you have enough to do the entire table. A quart of dye goes a long, long, way. Good luck.

John

[Jim Becker]

Gene, the challenge here is that cherry gets darker with age...so if you color that cherry now to get close to the production furniture's look, six months or two years from now, you may have a piece that's considerably different that what you were trying to match. Please look at this photo...the trunk on the top is "freshly finished" cherry with BLO, shellac and water borne clear. The bottom drawer unit was finished the same, but a couple years earlier. Same material. Same finishing regimen. Six months later, the top unit is still a little lighter than the bottom unit, but they are getting closer every day...

[Prashun Patel]

I agree that hitting a moving target is a little dangerous. That being said, both will darken over time, and it's my experience that different cherry tones can still be perfectly compatible.

WD Lockwood makes water-based dyes too in powder. They have a larger selection than Transtint, and you can order direct from them a sampler set of 5 colors for about $30. This will be MORE than enough dye for several tables. You can use the online charts to pentagon-ulate your target color. When I did this (it worked perfectly, btw), I made concentrates of each of the powders, and then experimented blending and then diluting them, and applying them.

Ask them what shade of shellac they used. This will also affect your final color.

Last, if you use a 'waxed' shellac, then consider using a different, non-poly based top coat. John can probably verify/refute, but I believe waxy shellac and urethane top coats can present compatibility issues (that's hearsay; I have not experienced this myself).

Also, if you are serious about matching the color, consider using a lacquer top coat instead of ArmRSeal or any oil-based varnish. These will add varying degrees of amber to your piece that may even darken/yellow slightly over time. A lacquer finish (sprayed) will go on quick, and won't affect your color.

My kitchen table and chairs are Stickley knock offs and I believe they are lacquer finished.

[Gene Davis]

Thanks for the ideas. I'll try starting with the TransTint brown-red dye I have, and make up five one-ounce batches, with drops of the dye in 4, 8, 12, 16, and 19-count strengths. The 19-drop batch equates pretty well to the TransTint recommended strength of 1 ounce dye to one quart water.

I'm familiar with how deep that red-brown is on white oak because it is what I have done as step one to emulate Stickley's "Onandaga" finish on QSWO.

I'll make up five finished samples (dye, Seal-a-Cell, Arm-r-Seal) and compare to the chair finish, and see how it goes. Am hoping the one dye color will do it. Photos to follow.

[John TenEyck]

Prashun, I've never had any bonding problems putting WB topcoats (GF's products) over Zinsser waxy shellac. The only bonding problems I've ever had was not waiting long enough for an OB stain to dry/cure before top coating with a WB product. But I don't go looking for trouble either, so I normally shoot a coat of Sealcoat over the waxy shellac before topcoating when using a WB product.

IME lacquer yellows with time. If you want water white that will stay water white GF's High Perf. Poly and Enduro Clear Poly are the best products I've used. But I'd have no qualms about using Arm-R-Seal (which, FWIW, was chosen as best overall in FWW's test (current issue) of varnishes that can be applied both by wiping and brushing). It is a perfect finish, IMO for Stickley style pieces. Of course, Stickley uses lacquer, but Arm-R-Seal can be applied by hand is a LOT tougher and more chemical resistant than lacquer. The Stickley tall cabinet I built about 4 years ago still looks unchanged, and used the Jeff Jewitt approach.

John

[Prashun Patel]

I too think it's perfect for most applications...unless I'm trying to color match perfectly.

I've not used other lacquers besides Deft's Brushing Lacquer (thinned to spray) and it has not yellowed. Yes, a waterbased topcoat may actually be a far easier, more appropriate choice here, Gene.

[Dan Lamprey]

Thanks for the ideas. I'll try starting with the TransTint brown-red dye I have, and make up five one-ounce batches, with drops of the dye in 4, 8, 12, 16, and 19-count strengths. The 19-drop batch equates pretty well to the TransTint recommended strength of 1 ounce dye to one quart water.

I'm familiar with how deep that red-brown is on white oak because it is what I have done as step one to emulate Stickley's "Onandaga" finish on QSWO.

I'll make up five finished samples (dye, Seal-a-Cell, Arm-r-Seal) and compare to the chair finish, and see how it goes. Am hoping the one dye color will do it. Photos to follow.

Were you able to come up with the stain that matches? I am looking for a stain to match my existing Stickley pieces that have the Central Valley w/Lacquer finish (#713) http://www.stickley.com/finishes.cfm

I contacted Stickley who directed me to call Jeff Jewitt with Homestead Finishing Products, but I spoke to him the other day and was of little help.

I am hoping you might have figured out the formula or could direct me to a solution.

Thanks!