First Time Finishing Cherry...

[Sam Chambers]

For once, I'm going to think about finishing before I even start! This weekend (hopefully) I'm going to start building a jewlery case as a 16th birthday present for my daughter, based on the plans (pardon me, "meashad drawring") from The New Yankee Workshop. I'll use cherry, not so much because that's what Norm used, but because it's what I have in the shop.

I've never used cherry before, except for some Freedom Pens, and I need some suggestions for a successful finish. I know cherry can be tricky to finish, and the last thing I want is a blotchy job.

A couple of specific questions...

1. I don't have any spray equipment, and don't really plan to buy any. So, the finish will need to be either a brush-on or wipe-on variety.

2. If I decide to stain the cherry a darker color, how can I best achieve an even color?

3. If I decide on an oil finish, how can I avoid the blotches?

4. What about using a sealer or conditioner?

5. Any other words of wisdom to impart?

Thanks in advance, folks.

[Doug Shepard]

2. If I decide to stain the cherry a darker color, how can I best achieve an even color?

Dont stain it. Put the wood outside in some of that hot GA sun for a while. You'll be surprised how much it will darken and you wont get any blotchiness from uneven stain absorption. Keep a raw scrap piece inside so you can compare and see how much it's darkening.

[Don Kisela]

I just finished that exact same project, made out of cherry. I did not stain, but used a wipe on varnish (Arm-r-seal). Turned out very nicely...Don

[Michael Pfau]

Gel stains work good on cherry. You can get an even coat.

[Jim Becker]

This one?? BLO and wax on this...pics taken right after building. It's much darker now after about four years, even given it lives in the master bedroom away from any direct sunlight. I am pretty much in the camp to not put additional color on cherry, other than maybe a seal coat of garnet shellac for a little initial toning. If you choose the material carefully to match for grain and color, you'll end up with a wonderful project and natural color. The pictures below do NOT represent good lumber selection, although the piece looks good now.

[Sam Chambers]

This one??

Yup, that's the one! Now that I see one in natural cherry color, I think I like that better than the stained version Norm built.

Gel stains work good on cherry. You can get an even coat.

Thanks, Michael. It looked like that's what Norm used, though he described it as a "gel stain with an oil".


A few more related questions for the finishing gurus...

1. Is there any meaningful difference between different brands of BLO? I was just reading the latest issue of Fine Woodworking where they compared wipe-on finishes, and the BLO they showed was the gallon size that I've seen at the Borg.

2. My daughter is notoriously hard on stuff, and I'm sure there will be a soda can sitting on top of the chest within a week after she gets it. After using BLO, can I top coat with something more durable, like oil-based poly? How long would I need to let the BLO cure before top coating?

Thanks for the replies, everyone. That's what I love about this place - good advice, delivered quickly!

[Jerry Olexa]

I agree w Jim's advice above but will add another option: After the BLO (which brings out the grain beautifully), pad on a coat or two of Garnet shellac then if you want a durable finish, use P&L #38 satin for a top coat. This provides a very nice finish on Cherry I believe! IMHO!

[Jim Becker]

1. Is there any meaningful difference between different brands of BLO? I was just reading the latest issue of Fine Woodworking where they compared wipe-on finishes, and the BLO they showed was the gallon size that I've seen at the Borg.

BLO is BLO...cheap BLO will work just as well as not-cheap BLO, believe it or not. I buy it by the gallon from the 'borg, but work from a smaller container. Be sure you dispose of your rags propertly...not in the trash! I hang mine on a nail in a post well away from my shop so they can blow in the wind to cure before putting them in the trash months later when I remember to do it.

2. My daughter is notoriously hard on stuff, and I'm sure there will be a soda can sitting on top of the chest within a week after she gets it. After using BLO, can I top coat with something more durable, like oil-based poly? How long would I need to let the BLO cure before top coating?

BLO takes a week or more to fully cure (the smell will go away when it's done) but if you seal it with a coat of de-waxed shellac after about three days, you can top coat with the finish of your choice. Poly isn't necessary and the shellac may be just fine. The Nakashima style natural edge "coffee table" in our TV room is finished in just shellac and has suvived this month of total and complete assault by our two future Russian daughters...I'm way impressed. You name it, it's had it on it, including over night. Big time. But if you feel more comfortable with a varnish, either polyurethane, alkyd or phenolic, go for it. Personally, I would not want anything high gloss on something like this, but that's just personal preference.

Afterthough: If you put any oil on the interior portions of your project you MUST seal it with shellac or you, err...your daughter...will be smelling it until the world freezes over in the deep future.

One other comment...Gel Stains sit on top of the wood. They are really a toner--and many folks even use them for that purpose. The big issue is that they also tend to obscure the grain and figure and you need an even hand to get an even result. I prefer water-soluable dyes when I need to color something with a shellac sealer to, umm...seal the dye before moving on. (the "color" of the shellac is chosen to compliment the intended end-result).

[Jules Dominguez]

Sam, it looks like you've already received some excellent recommendations and perhaps made up your mind. I've made several pieces from cherry and have only stained one of them, for a granddaughter's cradle, by request of her mother, so I'm in agreement with the rest.

But, just in case you should decide to stain, the water-based dyes do a good job and don't obscure the wood grain or reverse the color of the light and dark areas. And the dye is in the wood, not on the surface. I haven't bought any in a long time, but you can probably still get it at the Highland Hardware store. You can do the oil finish and shellac or whatever over the dye.

[Ken Salisbury]

**********************

[Alan Turner]

I like cherry natural, darkening over time, but I also color it a bit from time to time. If you like the color on the hutch (on my website), the coloring schedule was a honey amber dye (Transtint, of course), followed by a self mixed orange. As it has darkened since the photographs were taken, it is richer, but I like the orangish cast it still has, even as it darkens.

For your application, I don't agree that shellac is durable enough given your daughter's habits. Use a dewaxed shellac only, and on top of a BLO is fine, and top coat only the outside with Waterlox Original, which is a 27% solids wiping varnish. Use thin coats, 2 is plenty if you use shellac which seals and thus your build is very fast. One reason that I don't like shellac for top coats on wear surfaces is that not only will water or a martini nick it a bit, but a hot cup of coffee or tea will leave a ring that you can feel. Heat disolves shellac. That is what I have on our kitchen table, and I just haven't yet gotten around to dealing with it.

As to garnet shellac, I think it is a nice toner color, but with a hand application, becuase it is colored, any unevenness in application can show as streaks since shellac melts itself. If you use it, clear coat with with a lighter shade.

As you can see, all sorts of opinions on this subject. I don't think I have ever met anyone who does not care for cherry, so your wood selection is sound. Have fun on a very nice miniature piece of 18th cen. work.

[Sam Chambers]

Ken, you're funny!

Actually, the staining idea comes from SWMBO, who prefers the dark cherry (more like a dark red mahogany) color. I prefer the natural color myself, especially after seeing photos of Jim's.

[Sam Chambers]

Thanks again for the info guys...it's a huge help!

Shellac between the BLO and whatever I decide to use for a top coat...Got it! Of course, this brings up even more questions...

1. Jim, you made a comment that if I put any BLO on the inside of the case, I need to seal it with shellac to lock in the BLO smell. Thanks for the tip - hadn't thought about that! Do I need to oil the inside? I see that on your piece, you didn't put the felt up the vertical walls, like Norm did, so you would have to oil at least those surfaces for it to look right. If I don't use BLO & shellac on the inside, is there any issue with uneven wood movement because one side is finished and the other isn't?

2. I'm thinking of using Zinsser's "Bulls-Eye Seal Coat", which is a 2-lb. cut of dewaxed shellac. Michael Dresdner seems to just love the stuff, and it's certainly more convenient than mixing my own. When using it as a sealer/bond coat, do I need to thin it?

Thanks again, folks!

[Jim Becker]

Sam, I made that piece early on and did use oil on the inside...after four years it still has some odor, which is why I recommend the shellac sealer. In a piece this small, especially with the thin stock, wood movement is less of an issue. In fact, I built the back from solid 1/4" stock, not plywood a-la Norm.

I only wanted the felt on the bottom since I was going to use both the 1/8" ash dividers as well as sliding trays.

The Zissner SealCoat is just fine to use, although it's a blond shellac. I like garnet on cherry better, but no biggie. Just remember, it does have a shelf-life, despite their claim of up to three years. Use it up. Flakes pretty much have unlimited shelf life...until you mix them with alcohol, of course.

[Jules Dominguez]

I recently found some handwritten notes I made at a Tage Frid seminar at Highland Hardware 20 or so years ago. What I had written (which hopefully is what he said) is:

"Use laquer or shellac inside of drawers, never oil. Don't finish the inside of carcases or the outside of drawers."