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Thread: Using oilstones

  1. #1
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    Using oilstones

    For a while now I use mostly oilstones. It's getting cold now even here in Holland, so I'm glad I don't have to freeze of my fingers. I also do a lot of work with curved tools, which was my reason to start on the oilstone route. No grooves or gouges in my waterstones this time.

    I'd like to compare notes, so to speak. I have a washita and an arkansas stone. I think the latter is a translucent, at least some light comes through when I hold a light behind it. It doesn't seem to be so much finer then my washita though. Both stones raise a sizeable wire edge which takes quite some back and forth and the use of a strop to get rid of.

    I use babyoil now. The cheap stuff without perfume. I don't like the scent of most oils, but this one is probably just a pure light mineral oil. I need only a little bit because these natural stones are not permeable, unlike an India which soaks up cups of oil.

    I don't think that the washita is very fast. After rehoning a few times it takes a long time to raise a wire edge. I could go back to the grinder early, but I now also bought an Ezelap 400 plate. Maybe that helps as an initial step before the Washita. Sometimes I wonder if the Arkansas isn't just as quick. So I now really wonder if I didn't just get an hard Arkansas with a coarse cut. After each sharpening session I clean of the stones with a paper kitchen towel.

    For flattening ancient pitted backs, I start with 80 grit Sic grit on a floor tile. This is really quick. Then the diamond stone to remove these huge scrathes, and finally the oilstones. This goes quick. Especially the 80 grit is a huge time saver. I should have tried this ages before.

    The leather strop is charged with Flexcut Gold paste. For no specific reason other then that I have it. I use the Flexcut slipstrop which is a mold with several profiles, very usefull for gouges and other hollow tool shapes.

    The weird thing is, I started using the oilstones after I moved into the new shop with a real sink and running water. I always wanted this for my waterstones. But it is the use of gouges and moulding planes which got got me going and they are really a lot nicer to sharpen on these stones. My oilstones are quite narrow but it is no problem to sharpen plane blades. I skew the blade quite a lot on the stone and move around in little cirkels.

    Now I am curious to the experience of others and maybe some smart tips.

  2. #2
    Are you lapping the translucent stone? If not, it should stop releasing particles entirely in fairly short order. If you lap it on a regular basis, I'd suspect it won't cut much finer than the washita stone.

    I don't lap stones after initial lapping any longer. I "lift" the handle on every arkansas stone I use, and work only the edge of the iron. Broken in stones require some pressure to raise a wire edge or remove any sort of wear, but I think that's a good thing (it is to me), especially when they make good sharpness broken in like that.

    If you never lap your trans stone, and it's still not fine, it might be an arkeram or some other bonded stone that looks like an arkansas stone but is instead a bonded novaculite stone.

    I go back and forth between various natural stones, but sometimes use a diamond hone to precede japanese finishers (because some of the natural japanese stones are pretty fast cutting for their fineness - but those stones are also expensive).

  3. #3
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    No I don't lap. I didn't even lap them before. I just looked at them and declared them flat enough. I guess to flatten a planeblade I would have to use something else.

    The Arkansas really doesn't look like it is bonded. It has that soft translucent look over it. Really hard to photograph though, so I don't think a picture would help.

    Here is a picture of my sharpening setup.


  4. #4
    Hard to tell from the picture, but you may just have a fine cutting washita. The fine cutting washitas are knocking right on the doorstep of a hard arkansas.

    something like a lilywhite has a very open pore structure, and still can cut fairly finely if it's allowed to break in.

    Trans stones cover the territory of weak milky clearish to bright white with a little translucence to bone colored yellow with a little translucence. I don't think that's an arkeram or other bonded stone becasue most of those are 2x6 stones. If you can get the mass of that stone accurately and find that it's specific gravity is 2.6 or so, then I'm not sure why it wouldn't cut really finely.

  5. #5
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    Oops that picture tuned out bit large! Here is a picture of the stone with a light shining through. Maybe I am expecting too much from a stone like that? I am used to a Naniwa SS 8000. That one doesn't raise a wireeddge I can feel. I will calculate the specific gravity later. It's now too cold outside and almost bedtime.


    Arkansas.jpg

  6. #6
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    What kind of unit do you use for specific gravity? I calculate about 2.8 gram/cubic centimeter. (I did go outside into the cold!)

  7. #7
    well, the unit doesn't matter! 2.8 is a very high value, and it does pass some light. It should cut finely. The grains showing in it are curious, but at that density it should be a very fine stone.

    Strop the wire edge that you get off using some bare leather. The naniwa stone and the hard arkansas cut differently, but the sharpness should be about the same. Artificial fine stones usually cut grooves too deep and are too harsh to form much of an organized wire edge at high grit.

  8. #8
    Hey Kees,

    Welcome to the dark and oily side!

    If you intend the Washita to be a coarse stone, you could try abrading it with some loose SC or diamonds. If that doesn't get it cutting more rapidly, maybe it's a fine stone, as David suggested.

    If that doesn't work, you might try a fine India stone instead. They are really cheap (here at least, not sure about Holland) and cut like a million bucks!

    I think if your trans stone is raising a really persistent wire edge, then it is not a fine finishing stone. If I first raise a fat wire edge on the India stone, when I go to the hard black, the wire either disintegrates, or comes off in a single long strand. Stropping is just to remove the tiny bits of detritus that remain. My experience is limited to my hard black Arkansas finisher, but I assumed that's how most hard black or trans stones should work.
    "For me, chairs and chairmaking are a means to an end. My real goal is to spend my days in a quiet, dustless shop doing hand work on an object that is beautiful, useful and fun to make." --Peter Galbert

  9. #9
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    This sure is a problem for newbies wanting to use oilstones. You just don't know what you get. My Arkansas has all the looks of a fine stone, but it creates a sizable, rather persistant burr. So in reality it can't be that fine. I do get my tools plenty sharp, using the Flexcut paste on a strop.

    So, if I want a real fine stone, I either have to buy a new one from America, paying their high prices and the shipping. Or I try my luck on ebay (probably best to look in England), and take my chances.

    At least with the waterstones you know what you buy.

  10. #10
    Oil stones are different from water stones. With an oil stone you could get a burr 1/4 inch long if you but had the patience to keep sharpening. If you are getting a big burr, you are sharpening more than necessary. Water stones cannot form such a nice burr because there is loose grit all around that takes its toll on the burr. You have to keep this in mind when you compare the two.

    I think the Arkansas stones are a bargain when you consider that you are making a lifetime purchase and that they have to be mined and graded, not just baked in an oven. I have used oil stones for finishing since 1962. I sharpen plane irons, chisels , carving tools, turning tools, axes, scissors, knives, et cetera. I have used my stones so long that my cost is about $0.00075 per tool sharpened.

    In contrast water stone users seem to be always upgrading. Naniwa, Bester, Choseras, things I never heard of before the last few years. One guy on this forum used King stones (300, 800, 1200, 8000), then Shapton pros (1000, 5000, 8000, 12000), then Sigma (6000, 13000), then Spyderco (medium and ultra fine). All in the last six years. Try pricing those stones.
    Last edited by Warren Mickley; 12-10-2014 at 9:11 AM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kees Heiden View Post
    This sure is a problem for newbies wanting to use oilstones. You just don't know what you get. My Arkansas has all the looks of a fine stone, but it creates a sizable, rather persistant burr. So in reality it can't be that fine. I do get my tools plenty sharp, using the Flexcut paste on a strop.

    So, if I want a real fine stone, I either have to buy a new one from America, paying their high prices and the shipping. Or I try my luck on ebay (probably best to look in England), and take my chances.

    At least with the waterstones you know what you buy.
    Kees, I've used about 2 dozen fine oilstones, and it's been my experience that all of the fine stones create a fine edge. I'm not sure if the burr you're getting is coming from something else, or if it's just as warren says, too much honing.

    One of the reasons the arkansas stones were as popular as they were is because of their consistency (which makes them marketable). I think there's probably something small in terms of detail going on here that we don't know about. when you're polishing the back of a hard chisel with that stone, what does it look like. Does it bring up some polish, or does it look dull and scratchy? If it's not leaving a bright polish, then I think your stone might be an odd ball, a bonded stone or something that may have been marketed like the arkeram. If it brings up a polish, flip your iron back and forth a couple of times and use light pressure (honing on alternating sides) to thin the burr and then strop on bare leather. It should bring up an edge that is similar to a fine waterstone.

    (I've used most of the stones that warren mentioned, but I have sort of a thing for sharpening stones - as a novelty).

    well...I do have one final comment - if you're using something that is fairly soft, the fact that oilstones don't have small particles can show up. For example, if you use a 1 micron synthetic stone on an old french iron or a pocket knife that's not that hard, you'll still get a bright polish. If the steel is a bit soft and you use a translucent arkansas stone, you'll find that the stone still cuts the softer steel quite quickly. The thing that makes the whole system work as well as it does to cut finely (the system being novaculite stones) is that the abrasive and the hardened steel are fairly close together in hardness. If you tip the balance too much, they either refuse to cut for the most part (for example on a very hard japanese chisel) or the cut coarsely because the balance of things moves in favor of the abrasive (for example on a french knife or a cheap pocket knife).

    I bring up the french, because I've noticed a fair bit of their carbon steel stuff, like freres irons, and carbon steel knives, are a little softer than others. The english also had some soft carbon steel stuff (razors, etc) compared to germany and the US, and I think that's probably owed to the fact that their traditional stones were slow cutting.
    Last edited by David Weaver; 12-10-2014 at 9:35 AM.

  12. #12
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    That's valuable information about the burr. I almost bought another Arkansas but I try a bit with stopping sharpening sooner.

    I am a real newbie when it comes to oilstones. No wonder I keep comparing them to waterstones and getting confused.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kees Heiden View Post
    That's valuable information about the burr. I almost bought another Arkansas but I try a bit with stopping sharpening sooner.

    I am a real newbie when it comes to oilstones. No wonder I keep comparing them to waterstones and getting confused.
    Eventually, you will get a sense for how they like to sharpen, and you'll probably regard "sharpening like waterstones with waterstones" and "sharpening like oilstones with oilstones" to be two very different methods. Every type of stone I've tried works well if you're willing to gain familiarity with it. The only one I really don't like much for tools is coticule and hone slates (most of the good hone slates are super expensive now, anyway, or not very fine), but you can do fine with those.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Kees Heiden View Post
    This sure is a problem for newbies wanting to use oilstones. You just don't know what you get. My Arkansas has all the looks of a fine stone, but it creates a sizable, rather persistant burr. So in reality it can't be that fine. I do get my tools plenty sharp, using the Flexcut paste on a strop.

    So, if I want a real fine stone, I either have to buy a new one from America, paying their high prices and the shipping. Or I try my luck on ebay (probably best to look in England), and take my chances.

    At least with the waterstones you know what you buy.
    It's true that finishing stones are expensive, no matter the type.
    But I think the comparison is a little unfair. You "know what you buy" with synthetic waterstones because they are manufactured to uniform standards in some giant factory. Arkansas stones are natural, and so are much more variable. I think that makes it more important to buy from a source you can trust. If you are buying mystery stones of ebay, you might get really lucky, or more likely you end up wasting a lot of money.

    Right now, knife center has Dan's hard black 2 x 8 stones for $54. I don't know jack about waterstones, but isn't that cheaper, or at least comparable, even after shipping? The other thing is that, as Warren said, the arkansas stone will last several lifetimes. If you are middle-aged and plan on woodworking for another 30-40 years, how many times would you have to replace the fine waterstone, just from wear? I think Warren is right; in the long run, oil stones are cheaper.
    "For me, chairs and chairmaking are a means to an end. My real goal is to spend my days in a quiet, dustless shop doing hand work on an object that is beautiful, useful and fun to make." --Peter Galbert

  15. #15
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    The last things i have been sharpening are moulding plane irons and these aren't very hard in my case. They are quite simple things. So that might have influenced my experience with the large burrs.

    I'm going to do a test tonight with some chisels. I can even look with the microscope to see if I get a finer scratch pattern from the Arkansas compared to the Washita. That would at least settle my ignorance about this stone.

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