Why Is Oak "Dated"?

[scott vroom]

As an economist I am totally confused by your ideas of value. There is no independent "true" value of anything that can be determined by any "accurate" mathematical formula. The basis for values in the confluence of supply and demand, both of which concepts depend exclusively on what sellers and buyers are willing and able to sell or buy, respectively. Appraisers must find a way to estimate what those supply and demand factors will determine. Commercial real estate is priced as a multiple of cash flow, using "cap rates", but the cap rate depends on what supply and demand conditions, including interst rates, are in that market for that type of buildings. All real estate values are very location dependent, including residential real estate. Value is always subjective to a degree. Of course there are different varieties of value such as "replacement cost value" or distressed sale value, or a common concept of willing buyer and willing seller values. It really is more accurate to say6 value is what you can sell it for, as long as you realize that there are caveats attached, such as whether is is some kind of duress or special circumstances affecting either buyer or seller.

I think most here understand econ 101.....but....how do you feel about oak cabinets?

[Mark Woodmark]

Can econ 101 explain why a Mirka sander cost 6 times as much as similar function sanders on the market?

I think most here understand econ 101.....but....how do you feel about oak cabinets?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Can econ 101 explain why a Mirka sander cost 6 times as much as similar function sanders on the market?

Yes, Mark it can. It's the price the seller chooses to offer the sander to the market. But it's value is only what a buyer is willing to pay.

[keith micinski]

That's incorrect because I wouldn't pay more then 69 dollars for a Mirka sander because I don't need one but from what I have read they have a "Value" that states that would be undervaluing it. But since it's only worth what I am willing to pay then I guess that's that so let me know where to send my shipping info to. Back on thread I looked at 5 houses today that all had hideously outdated 1980's fake walnut stained oak cabinetry and I have decided it's trying to give golden oak a run for its money in just plain awfulness.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Value is subjective. You aren't in the market so the device has little or no value to you. If, however, I was in dire need of a sander to finish a project for a customer and the Mirka at a high price was the only one available, I might find it was valuable enough because I am in need of it. My need and a lack of supply could drive the value to me of the sander up to the price at which it is offered for sale.

Back to the subject of this thread. I am reading this with great interest as I will probably be doing a bump out on our home to enlarge and update the kitchen next summer. I want to build and install cabinets that might be of some value should the wife and I decide to sell our home in the future.

[Steve Schoene]

There is oak, and there is oak. What I cannot abide is oak with rotary cut plywood panels. That always looks cheap, and If I were in the market to buy a house I would deduct 15k or more for a house with such cabinets because I would plan to replace them as soon as possible. Now arts and crafts styles with quartersawn oak, that is well finished would be ok, though for the kitchen I'm just completing uses Lyptus instead of the quartersawn white oak that was my first thought. The Lyptus looks very much like mahogany and was cheaper than the quartersawn white oak would have been.

I'm always surprised at how many folks, especially in high places, that really don't understand Econ 101 or 102, not to mention the 601 & 602. Econ certainly can explain the high prices of Mirka or Festool sanders. The supply of such tools is quite limited by the manufacturers who hope to stimulate demand amoung potential customers by selling durability, quietness, and good dust collection systems. These are important for some workers who much sand in occupied houses for example.

[Brian Holcombe]

Qtr Sawn white oak is just as commonly used in contemporary work as it was used previously in modern work. Everyone loves walnut at the moment, give it a few years and everyone will be all the rage about oak once again.

Personally I would adhere to the style of the home. This becomes relevant after the trend passes, I've seen some gorgeous period houses with just awful 'updates' made to them over the years. It's terribly painful to see a modern addition to a craftsman house or a colonial front door and cabinets in a modern house, ect, ect. There is a house in my area that has been on the market for a few years, it featured beautifully done 'craftsman style' everything fitted into a modern house, it just makes you shake your head as one very obviously does not fit the other and no one wants to pay top dollar for a combination of things that do not make sense but are too nice to toss.

If your house is a builder house (of the contemporary variety) I would stick to neutral choices so that they do not become a point of contention with potential buyers. Anything at the peak of trend at the moment is going to be the Victorian style red oak cabinets of tomorrow.

[Brian Holcombe]

Value is subjective. You aren't in the market so the device has little or no value to you. If, however, I was in dire need of a sander to finish a project for a customer and the Mirka at a high price was the only one available, I might find it was valuable enough because I am in need of it. My need and a lack of supply could drive the value to me of the sander up to the price at which it is offered for sale.

Back to the subject of this thread. I am reading this with great interest as I will probably be doing a bump out on our home to enlarge and update the kitchen next summer. I want to build and install cabinets that might be of some value should the wife and I decide to sell our home in the future.

In regard to retail pricing, demand is the variable. There is no way that the retailer would know how many people are willing to pay less than $69 for said sander without lowering the price via promotion and discovering how many people are willing to pay the promotional price. A retail setting is not a good representation of 'value' since the price is pre-set.

In a bidding situation where there is only one or very few objects price becomes the variable and value is then determined since the open market has set the price at the close of bidding.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

Real Oak floors are the Best!

[scott vroom]

Anyone else notice that the OP bailed after the first post?

[Bill Space]

Anyone else notice that the OP bailed after the first post?

Julie is not new around here and has started some interesting threads in the past.

My guess is she probably has a life to attend to and will be back when time permits...

[Matt Meiser]

Probably still lost in Ikea.

[jared sankovic]

My house was built in 2001 (planned community) and had contractor grade cheap looking golden oak through out (cabinets, railings, vanity's.) I was able to buy it at a steep discount based on the dated look and lack of "upgrades". The selling agent freely stated to me during the open house the owners were advised to sell it lower then the comps in the neighborhood (about 60k under) if they were not going to "update" the look.

[Jim Hampton]

This is an outstanding suggestion! If you paint your unwanted oak a desireable color, I'll bet you can recover a significant portion of the $15k.

My daughter is into buying "old" furniture and putting a distressed look on it and sells it for a mint! To reiterate that point, we brought an old CHEAP Sauder computer desk from a friend's garage sale for $10. She put a distressed finish on it, added modern "chic" colors. She sold that thing in her antique booth for $370. Now she has me building little tables, dovetailed boxes, and stuff out of old pallet boards, nail holes, rust stains, and then she finishes them and sells them for ridiculous prices. I even had to buy a cheap planer and jointer to keep those boards out of my good machinery. Although I'm a hobbyist, I/We have made quite a bit of money doing this. The planer and jointer set me back about 500 and change, but I've recouped that 10X over. I can knock out5 or 6 little boxes in an evening and they sell for minimum of $60. People even know it's pallet wood and is just finished, but they buy it anyway. The old saying "a fool and his money shall soon be parted" really rings through with the market out there.
I'd definitely be looking into a "distressed" look for those cabinets. You'd probably get the 15 back and then some.

[Chris Padilla]

Interesting, Jim. Where are you located? I wouldn't be so fast to call those people "fools" as they are your main clients and the client is always right, right?