Buying first machine

[Richard Gibson]

I want to buy my first CNC router. It will be a used unit and will be for small hobby projects only. (My budget is VERY limited and somply cannot got to #3000 or up machines) I have read several threads on here and other forums but I wanted opinions from Sawmill Creek users. My question is I-Carver 40-913 by General Machine or Shark CNC by New Wave Automation? Which would you buy and why? Thanks in advance for any help and guidance.

[dan nelson]

Save up and buy your second cnc first. Seems unrealistic but you wont be sorry. There are a lot of good used machines out there do your research. And ask a lot of questions.

[Bryan Rocker]

The first question you need to do is define what capabilities you need then determine what size machine you will need. Once that is all done start watching for used machines. I decided on a 4'x4' and found an ole Warthog for $1k on craigslist. Yes it needs so updates but that are MINOR in comparison to what a new comparable machine would cost. I do know not to long ago down in your neck of the woods there was a 4x8 shop bot for $5k...........

Bryan

[Ted Reischl]

I would not buy a Shark. I am just against machines that are made out of plastic. Take a look at Gryphon.

[Bryan Rocker]

A few months ago I took a trip over to Columbus to the Wood Werker store and they were just adding the Steel city line of CNC routers to their store, I looked at all 3 and they were comparable to the Laguna small series. Considering for the same money you are getting all metal as compared to a Shark which is mostly plastic which they also had one there to look at. It was very informative to look at all 3 at the same time....

http://axiomprecision.com/index.php/routers.html

[Curt Stivison]

I purchased an axiom pro 6 from Todd at Woodwerks in Columbus and it arrived last week. I have been using a shark pro for two years. The Shark was a great learning machine and didn't break the bank. Gave me a chance to learn V-Carve Pro and know what I needed in a cnc. I have used my Pro 6 for a week and it is a very solid machine. The Axiom tech support is at the woodwerks store in Columbus and Chad was very helpful in getting the machine setup. If you call the Axiom 800 number, Chad is the one who answers the phone. That kind of support is priceless.
Curt

[William Adams]

Neither of those appealed to me when I was considering getting a CNC --- too pricey for what you get.

If you're interested in a kit, the new Shapeoko 3 has just been announced: http://www.shapeoko.com/ --- $799 for everything but a spindle (a Dewalt DWP-611 is suggested, but I'm planning on using my Makita RT-0701) --- or you could get the Shapeoko 2 while it's still available, the Black Friday sale has been extended: $550 https://www.inventables.com/technolo...kit-shapeoko-2

ob. discl. I did the instructions for the SO2 ( http://docs.shapeoko.com/ ) and will be doing the initial version for the SO3.

[Frank barry]

wow that looks good value well worth thinking about for anyone starting out with a small budget

[William Adams]

(re: the Shapeoko hobby-kit-CNC-router)

wow that looks good value well worth thinking about for anyone starting out with a small budget

Thanks! I'm looking forward to the new machine (and still trying to puzzle out what I'm going to do w/ my Shapeoko 1 and 2). The SO3 is growing out of a partnership w/ Carbide3D.com and their Nomad883 machine seems really cool, albeit w/ a very small, non-expandable work area.

[Frank barry]

yes it looks very nice and for anyone that would want to put there toe in the water a nice option you would still need an operating system like mach3 and something like Vcarve pro what do you expect your total cost to be ?

[William Adams]

It includes a micro-controller running Grbl, so no need for Mach3.

Default/suggested software toolchain is opensource/free, so instead of VCarve Pro, one uses:

- Inkscape (some people use Illlustrator, I use Freehand)
- MakerCAM http://www.makercam.com/ (requires Flash, some people d/l the .swf and run it locally)
- Universal G-Code Sender http://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.p...-G-Code-Sender (requires Java) --- I use GrblController instead, and there have been a bunch of others developed, see the wiki.

Though there are some people running other commercial software, and I believe VCarve is one option people are using successfully.

Since Adobe bought Freehand and buried it, I don't do commercial software if there's any other option.

More information here: http://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.php/Software

[Richard Gibson]

William Adams- thank you for telling me about the Shapeoko 3. It sounds like it could be a very good option for me. I have sent them an email about the "expandability" of it. It says 16x16 and I would really like to go to a 24" length. I don't know if that can be done or how to do it. And I would need to decide about some kind of easy and user friendly software to use. Your help has sure given me a good option. Again thank you.

[William Adams]

The extrusion will be available in a variety of lengths. A 5' x 5' machine able to accommodate a half-sheet of 4' x 8' plywood (so 4' x 4' working area) has been proved out by FEA (finite element analysis) and longer machines may be feasible w/o side supports (w/ side supports a machine can be arbitrarily long w/in the limitations of belt width / length / strength / stretch (I've been arguing for a wider default belt).

Software is a personal choice. I limit myself to opensource for philosophical reasons --- Inkscape is workable enough (and the plug-in Gcodetools looks to be especially capable), but if I'm ever forced to use nothing but Illustrator (I've used it since v3.2 on my NeXT Cube) I'll quit doing work on the computer and retire.

All vector programs are fundamentally the same though, w/ similar capabilities --- Affinity Serif is looking to be a nice new option and may grow to be a replacement for Freehand --- just a matter of learning to use them.

One commercial option you might want to look into is MeshCAM: http://www.grzsoftware.com/ --- it's supposed to be quite simple to use and will be well-integrated into the Shapeoko 3 (the developer is one of the partners in Carbide3D).

[Richard Gibson]

William- (Remember I am TOTALLY new to this area of woodworking) So I should be able to get a 16x28 extrusion from Shapeoko or someone else when I buy the kit and use that as I assembly it to give me the bigger dimisions I want? You mentioned a "wider default belt". Would I need to get anything else to be able to go to the larger size cutting area?

Can you suggest any good reading or youtube videos you could recommend for a newbee? I am so new to this I have "heard" about the software but I have no idea what it looks like or how it operates. I am not computer illiterate but again this is a new realm for me. I do not need some big commercial software or complex programs. My projects are going to be simple hobbies such as signs, plaques, and decorations on other wood projects.

[William Adams]

Yes, Carbide3D will have longer extrusion available for the SO3, which will allow one to build a bigger machine. You can see what's involved in scaling up the SO2 here: http://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.php/Scaling_Up --- the SO3 should be even simpler to scale up.

Since the Shapeoko uses belts for linear motion (on all 3 axes on the SO3), if the axis is long, then there's a concern about how much the belt will stretch --- I'm using a narrow MXL belt on the 1 meter Y-axis of my SO1 --- it works, but I've had some issues w/ belts slipping, hence my preference for a wider belt --- the SO2 and SO3 use GT2 belts which are actually designed for power tranmission / positioning, so should work better --- I just think that given the trivial price difference we should be go ahead w/ the wider belts. If it comes w/ narrow belts by default, I'll probably buy and install wider belts when I get the chance.

You can read through the forum here --- there's a lot of good information (some of which I linked to in the Shapeoko wiki: http://www.shapeoko.com/wiki ). If you find any of the terms obscure, they should be defined here: http://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.php/Glossary (please let me know about any terms which you find unfamiliar which are not defined there)

An oft' recommended book is _The CNC Cookbook: An Introduction to the Creation and Operation of Computer Controlled Mills, Router Tables, Lathes, and More_: http://www.amazon.com/CNC-Cookbook-I...7021475&sr=1-1 --- the author maintains a website which sells software related to CNC which has a pretty cool licensing arrangement.

This .pdf is a good introduction: http://softsolder.files.wordpress.co...ction-2011.pdf --- we made a .pdf for a flier for a cancelled showing of the machine: http://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/images/...r_outlines.pdf

An excellent on-line resource and very detailed accounting of one person's experience w/ CNC is the "Guerrilla guide to CNC machining, mold making, and resin casting": http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/gcnc/

There're some videos linked to from the Shapeoko wiki: http://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.php/Assembly_Videos and Winston Moy has a Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/krayvis