"Top Tier" gasoline

[Ole Anderson]

When I go on Gas Buddy it tells which stations (actually brands) have "Top Tier" gasoline. The way it is explained many refiners have significantly reduced the detergent level below that recommended my many auto manufacturers. Locally Mobil, Exxon, BP and Shell are top tier, whereas Citgo, Marathon, Speedway and Sunoco as well as grocery store brands are not. Does anybody pay attention or care? Or is it just a marketing ploy? The price difference can be quite substantial, up to 25 cents per gallon in my area just today.

[Matt Day]

Sounds to me like a marketing scheme. I've always been told that basic gas is essentially all the same, except for some additives. I would be interested to hear from some more knowledgeable folks though.

[mike holden]

Here in Michigan, the gas blends are dictated by law. There are winter and summer blends and dates between which they can be sold. This accounts for the price fluctuations in spring and fall when the refineries either have an excess or shortage of blend remaining. This applies to the refinery not the station.
Not sure if you have "monkey" or "dance" gas stations in Highland, but both of those brands buy excess fuel in tank trucks at a reduced rate, that is the remainder after the tanker has filled the tanks of the respective name brand stations, it is cheaper to empty the truck before returning and therefore sell the dregs at a discount.
But due to the gas blend laws here, it really does not matter where you buy your gas as far as blend goes. It does make a difference at the station regarding cleaniliness of storage and age of fuel. Difficult to tell from outside what those conditions are.
Mike

[David Weaver]

It looks like the manufacturers had problems and tried to put it back on the gasoline as the cause. It also looks like they have to pay for analysis and to use the "top tier" label, something I wouldn't really want to pay for as a customer when you could just check with the manufacturers and find out their detergent levels.

The summaries I could see of various people suggested that more detergents could lead to cleaner engine bits and pieces, but some also said a fuel injector cleaner in the tank every once in a great while would do the same thing, and that some of the issues that were blamed on the fuel have been designed out by changes in alloys (that don't allow the buildup to occur).

[Ole Anderson]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Tie...rgent_Gasoline

Reading this tells me that there is something to it, particularly for newer engines where performance is becoming the new standard. I have no idea, however, if the tankers filling up at the distributor all get the same gas or if they push a button "add detergent". Personally my most convenient station is a top tier provider, but when I need to fill up the truck, which takes more gas, I sometimes take the time to drive 4 miles more to the Citgo. I have a Vibe which has had engine valve problems and the service bulletin provided to me from GM stated to use only gas from a major stations with lots of turnover so you get fresh gas. No mention of top tier gas stations.

[David Weaver]

You just never know with these branded things what the real truth is, but it appears that Citgo gas is probably fine, too.

https://www.citgo.com/WebOther/TriCl...arketerFAQ.pdf

the annoying thing about all of these branded formulations is that they can say they see a cleaner engine or better mileage, but there is never an actual long-term study to suggest a difference between one type or another, what % of the time any difference really occurs, and whether or not it's material (as well as commentary about whether design changes may have eliminated it in the first place). Instead, they do a lab test, conclude a difference, and you never really know whether or not it's a material difference to you (as in, does the extra cost equate to extra savings later).

It appears the "top tier" people have two ways to make money, and who knows if they pay the manufacturers to be endorsed in the owners manuals?

Citgo's commentary is very markety, too. Quasi-technical.

When you go out to car forums, you find people who swear they see a mileage difference when they go to a top-tier gas. that's almost comical, especially if they think they see one right away.

[Larry Edgerton]

I just finished up a job in Jackson and drove by two big terminals every day. One was Citco and the other Marathon, but...... The trucks lined up to get filled were just about any brand that you might think of, so jumping to an uninformed conclusion, me, I just buy gas.

Larry

[David Weaver]

I just finished up a job in Jackson and drove by two big terminals every day. One was Citco and the other Marathon, but...... The trucks lined up to get filled were just about any brand that you might think of, so jumping to an uninformed conclusion, me, I just buy gas.

Larry

We'll wait for you to tell us that you chiseled a few pieces of coal out of your exhaust pipe!!

(being sarcastic of course ).

[Kent A Bathurst]

Might be wrong, but I was always under the impression that the gasoline is all the same in the pipeline from refinery to the branded distribution centers. At that point, the brands add their own stuff to make it their formula - you get all the marketing wizardry from there. That would include detergent, eye of newt, etc.

When Katrina hit the GUlf, the gasoline pipeline[s] to Atlanta were off-line for an extended period. Atlanta was in the "summer forumla" season - as required by EPA. They could get regular-formula gasoline via alternate pipelines, but could not do that because of EPA regs, so they were trucking in summer formula from Florida. Supplies got very tight, and cost went up for that reason, but also the extra cost to transport.

It took a number of days - 5? 8? - for the Govco bureaucracy to process Georgia's emergency request for temp lifting of the summer formula regs. After which, "standard" gas came in via those alternate pipelines for a few weeks, until the regular piplelines were back in the game.

[Wade Lippman]

I have trouble believing that Gulf, Hess, Sunoco, and Citgo all cause engine damage, but nothing is made of it.

The Citgo article was interesting in it's claim that it meets EPA requirements and might be better than Top Tier.

All very confusing. But my wife's car now has 120,000 miles without any maintenance other than consumables, and it has rarely had any Top Tier gas. I can live with that.

[Bob Turkovich]

I'm going to preface my comments in that most of my experience in this was pre-retirement (December, 2008).

We had a customer driveability issue pop-up in December, 2007, that eventually was directly attributable to gasoline quality issues. We determined that by examining returned parts and finding a substance that was not part of the normal build/usage process but could be created at combustion temperatures. Warranty analysis showed zero issues west of the Mississippi or in New England. All of the claims were along the I-75 Snowbird pipeline from the Upper Midwest to Florida. When we talked to the affected customers, almost all had purchased their gas at Costco/Sam's Club/Meijer, however, we were advised by our Fuel/Lubricants people that it was not necessarily indicative of the typical quality of their gas as they did not always get their gas from the same refinery. The refinery that supplied the problem gas could now be providing any number of stations including the "top-tier" brands. The most recent survey they conducted at that time showed the highest quality of gas was coming from Marathon and Speedway. (That December/January was the only time in my 35+ year career that I worked Christmas Eve, New Years Eve and New Years Day...)

Re: fuel injector cleaners and/or fuel additives. One needs to be careful putting any additives in the fuel tank as material compatibility issues (with injector internals) can occur. Injector material selection is tightly guarded by the injector manufacturers and there is no way an additive supplier can verify acceptance with every injector (or fuel supply component) out there. When I retired, the only additive accepted by the three major injector suppliers we dealt with was Chevron-Techron (and I confirmed this in 2012.)

Re: fuel composition effects on fuel economy - there may be a slight variation in FE from fuel to fuel but typically not enough to affect the EPA label. It could be enough to effect a manufacturer recommending a certain octane level (e.g., 87 vs 89) but not to be brand-specific.

Re: owners manuals. I had to sign-off on my portions of the owners manuals for years. They had zero marketing input.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Bob - thanks as always for bringing professional expertise to the conversation. Very interesting as always.

Three quick questions for you:

1. Is the pipeline's real name "Snowbird"? That is too funny, and perfect.
2. NJIT ???
3. EMU ???

Thanks,

Kent

[Brian Elfert]

There is a gasoline terminal locally and tankers from all different companies fill up there. I've been told the gasoline is all the same, but different additives are added to the load depending on which brand of stations they are delivering to.

[Wade Lippman]

There is a gasoline terminal locally and tankers from all different companies fill up there. I've been told the gasoline is all the same, but different additives are added to the load depending on which brand of stations they are delivering to.

The issue is whether the non-TopTier additives are adequate.

[George Bokros]

When I go on Gas Buddy it tells which stations (actually brands) have "Top Tier" gasoline.

When I go to gassbuddy I do not see any mention or link to anything that talks about "top Tier"gasoline. Do you have to be member of gasbuddy to see this info??