Hot wiring my SawStop

[John Coloccia]

So once again, now that I have a SS back in the shop, I have to figure out a way to hot wire my table saw because SawStop stubbornly refuses to allow it's saw to run with anything smaller than an 8" blade, even in bypass mode. Grrrr. With the contractor saw, it was no big deal. The motor was wired with a standard 20A line chord, and a I could just unplug it from the controller box and plug it into an auxillary switch.

With the 3HP PCS, it's a little more involved. I have a 20A, motor rated switch here, so I can skip having to use a starter, but then I have to add some thermal protection on my own. Not a bit deal, but a little annoying, I guess. Either way, I'll have to cut into the motor line and put connectors on it. I mostly use twist locks, but they're SO bulky. I'm debating what to use here too.

Has anyone else done anything like this? I may well have been the first to do it on the contractor saw, and possibly the first to do it on a PCS. Is that possible? I have to think that someone else has done this and maybe has a more elegant solution than my brute force hack and whack. A potential solution is to cut into the cable going to the switch box and to control the relay manually from a switch. Wiring wise, that would be a pretty simple solution as it wouldn't require any additional outside wiring, but I think it comes with a couple of safety issues that I'm not sure I'm comfortable with.

Hmmmm....what to do, what to do...

[Matt Day]

What are you using that is smaller than 8"? Cove cutting blade or something?

Sorry, no help on the bypass question.

[Mike Henderson]

I guess I'd do the outside switch approach you describe. I'd want to completely isolate any of the SS control and electronics from the system.

Seems like you'd want the following at that box:

1. A way to switch the input power either to your manual control or to the regular SS control. This is to completely remove the SS stuff from the system.
2. A way to switch the motor connection between your manual control and the regular SS controlled power.
3. A manual control for bypass operation (motor on/off)

I don't see any switch combination problems. If you put switch 1 in manual and don't switch switch 2, the motor just won't start. If you switch switch 2 and not switch 1 I don't think the SS electronics will have a problem. Switch 3 should be magnetic to prevent accidental start up.

Mike

[John Coloccia]

What are you using that is smaller than 8"? Cove cutting blade or something?

Sorry, no help on the bypass question.

I have some thin kerf blades here.... .023", .035, etc. It's for guitar work. Fret slotting, making kerfed linings, and things like that. I've tried them in 8" configuration and can get them running with the dado brake, but they just don't cut well, even with stiffeners. They heat up and warp almost immediately....which makes it heat up and warp more, etc etc. The saw plates are just too thin because my supplier uses a hollow ground saw plate. So if it's .035" at the edges, it's even thinner at the center! That's just too thin over 8", and the blade is very floppy and has terrible heat dissipation.

The only way to really make it work 8" is to have a thick saw plate that's then ground down at the ends, and teeth cut. That's how my 6" blade is made, and it works very well. I've called around everywhere I can think of, even people that claim to make custom blades. Only one has even bothered to respond to me and they said they can't do it.

So that motor has got to somehow spin with the controller completely bypassed. They just made it a bit tougher on the PCS than it was on the contractor. I have a lot of options, and it's not a big deal, but if someone's already done this, I'd rather copy an elegant solution than have to think one up.

[Scott Reed]

Cool thread. I make bass guitars and had this same problem when I upgraded my table saw from a Grizzly to a SS PCS. I greatly prefer the SS but am unable to slot fingerboards with my 6" blade. I called many blade companies, SS recommended one company who stated they were making an 8" for this very reason. Well, one year later and I'm still waiting. While waiting I went back to cutting them by hand which sucks, and was planning to buy a used bench-top table saw just for fingerboards. I never found a suitable saw and got another idea while walking through Lowes. I purchased a Kobalt 7/14" sliding miter saw for $79. What is very cool about this is that I can easily slot the boards after they've been glued to the neck blank and after they've been radiused. I'm contemplating building a jig that allows the slide to follow the radius of the fingerboard. The saw has an easy to set depth stop and it sets up very accurately. I find this an easier way to slot boards than on the table saw and the saw is quite small and easy to store out of the way; much easier than had I bought the bench-top table saw.

[Matt Meiser]

I helped a friend put the electronics back on one he bought, got home, and found out someone ripped them all off. Unless they've changed something, ultimately, the 3HP motor is just a 3HP motor. Get it power and it runs.

[John Coloccia]

Cool thread. I make bass guitars and had this same problem when I upgraded my table saw from a Grizzly to a SS PCS. I greatly prefer the SS but am unable to slot fingerboards with my 6" blade. I called many blade companies, SS recommended one company who stated they were making an 8" for this very reason. Well, one year later and I'm still waiting. While waiting I went back to cutting them by hand which sucks, and was planning to buy a used bench-top table saw just for fingerboards. I never found a suitable saw and got another idea while walking through Lowes. I purchased a Kobalt 7/14" sliding miter saw for $79. What is very cool about this is that I can easily slot the boards after they've been glued to the neck blank and after they've been radiused. I'm contemplating building a jig that allows the slide to follow the radius of the fingerboard. The saw has an easy to set depth stop and it sets up very accurately. I find this an easier way to slot boards than on the table saw and the saw is quite small and easy to store out of the way; much easier than had I bought the bench-top table saw.

When I had the contractor SS, I kept my old delta contractor saw and dedicated it to slotting fingerboards. I even gave away the wings and the fence. That worked fine until I started getting funny slots and realized that the trunion was so loose as to make straight cuts impossible.

If I had the room for more contraptions, I'd bring a RAS back into the shop. The problem is that good, accurate ones are expensive and difficult to find. I tried a Dewalt...uhm...MBF, I believe. There's so much flex in how the mounting post attaches to the base that it's absolutely useless. I don't know where all the love for that machine comes from.

The Kobalt looks like an interesting idea. I would have thought that there would be a ton of flex in something that cheap so I'm surprised to hear you're satisfied with the performance. Still, I need to get it going on my PCS regardless. I make my own kerfed lining too, and that requires pretty extreme accuracy or else you build up stress at the different cut and it breaks, defeating the purpose of making these ultra flexible linings.

To keep it simple, I think I decided to get another starter, put a plug on it, and put a plug on the motor. I really wanted to reuse the starter already on the saw, but the wire between the starter and control box is too short. I MIGHT be able to get a plug on it, and then again I might not. I'll post some pictures when I'm done.

[Larry Edgerton]

John, I have too many sliders from when I was a larger contractor. I have a Hitachi 8' that would be perfect for that application as it could run the blade you already have. Has a lot of miles on it but still cuts true. Doesn't take up much space compared to most sliders. Yours for shipping costs.

Larry

[J.R. Rutter]

I posted my solution to the small cutter issue a while back. In my case, I needed to use an LRH Magic Moulder. Basically, you can screw an extension to the aluminum of the brake so that it gets close enough to sense the arbor.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...n-your-SawStop

[Prashun Patel]

Dumb question alert:

I love channeling my inner Rube Goldberg too, but might it be cheaper/easier to get a dedicated, small benchtop saw for this kind of work?

[J.R. Rutter]

Dumb question alert:

I love channeling my inner Rube Goldberg too, but might it be cheaper/easier to get a dedicated, small benchtop saw for this kind of work?

Point taken, but not for me. : )

[Roy Turbett]

If I had the room for more contraptions, I'd bring a RAS back into the shop. The problem is that good, accurate ones are expensive and difficult to find. I tried a Dewalt...uhm...MBF, I believe. There's so much flex in how the mounting post attaches to the base that it's absolutely useless. I don't know where all the love for that machine comes from.

I've restored two 3/4hp DeWalt MBF's and a larger 1 1/2hp DeWalt GWI and agree that some column flex is found in most saws. However, when the saws are properly tuned, the flex is minimal. Of the two, the GWI has better column support. You can minimize flex even further by putting a lighter MBF yoke and motor on a GWI by using the GWI carriage bearings. Here is a link to a thread that shows the difference.

http://owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=...DeWalt+GWI+MBF

Roger Hill has written extensively on how to restore and tune DeWalt RAS's and explains the source of flex and how to fix it.

"You will want to take out as much play in the elevating crank as you can. Crank play can
be minimized by adding shim washers below and above the thrust cap, which is the
column cap just below the crank. It has the miter scale attached to it, and mounts to the
column with either two or four machine screws with lock washers. I recommend that you
replace the original machine screws with socket head cap screws, which are much easier
to remove than the original slot head screws, and are a lot stronger. The idea is to add
shims, mostly above the cap, just below the crank, so that you eliminate as much free
play as possible. Shims can be obtained from McMaster-Carr. The bottom bearing
surface on the crank needs to contact the top shim precisely when the crank set screw (or
split pin, or taper pin on some DeWalts) is tight in place.
5Then adjust the column base clamp screws so that the column is held firmly by the
bearing surfaces inside the base, and with the miter lock for the arm tight, there is no
up/down play in the end of the arm. IMPORTANT! The DeWalt frames do have a bit of
flex. Mr. Sawdust points out that there is some frame flex on later DeWalts that can be
cured with diagonal straps riveted to opposite frame corners. To eliminate all flex in the
base, bolt the frame solidly down to a solid sheet of plywood or MDF, or even better, to a
cabinet top or solid wood frame. The DeWalt legs, cabinets and other steel frames are
not designed to eliminate flex in the frame, in fact they actually add to it because
those are the one part of a DeWalt that were never really well thought out and
engineered.
Try elevating the column. If it’s too tight, adjust the base clamp screws very slightly until
you can raise and lower the arm with a firm cranking pressure. Then tighten the one (or
two, on some DeWalts) set screw(s) (which I recommend you replace with cup point
socket head cap screws) that force the brass gib against the side of the column key so that
when the miter lock for the arm is tight, there is no left/right play in the end of the arm
when you try to move it. If this makes raising and lowering too hard, reduce the pressure
against the gib by slightly loosening the set screws holding the gib against the column
key and tightening the spreader set screw. These adjustments are easy to make, but I have
found that most DeWalt arms are way too easy to raise and lower, which produces up and
down and/or side play in the arm end."

[John Coloccia]

John, I have too many sliders from when I was a larger contractor. I have a Hitachi 8' that would be perfect for that application as it could run the blade you already have. Has a lot of miles on it but still cuts true. Doesn't take up much space compared to most sliders. Yours for shipping costs.

Larry

Thanks for the offer, Larry. I would take you up on it other than the fact that my workspace is already cramped and I can't afford to bring in another tool just for this one task. Honestly, it's better suited to a table saw anyhow, especially for the linings. I can get accurate depth control to just a couple thousandths of an inch, which is really essential to make them work the way they do.

Prashun:
I had a dedicated saw for this. The problem is the accuracy. I have a $3000+ cabinet saw, and I'm going to make the most precise cuts on a cheapy jobsite saw that I have to find a way of storing? I did that once already and it just doesn't work out in the long run. The SawStop does such a better job, when it works.

J.R.:
Ohhh...interesting. Someone had suggested making an aluminum extension. That idea scared me...what if there's an accidental firing? Just a piece of wire off to the side seems reasonably safe and usable. Did you have to drill and tap it, or is it just bolted through the brake? This would save me a whole lot of trouble for the cost of one stupid brake. Have you ever run into trouble where it looses sense of the blade during use? Does it just spin down or will it keep going?

Thanks!

edit:
I have to say, though, that this reminds me of the situation with older style blade guards/splitters. Manufacturers stubbornly refused to make a system that worked in the real world, and the end result is people had to simply remove, and then left them off. I find myself again having to take ridiculous steps to get around safety mechanisms that don't get it done in the real world. It's ridiculous that I can't run any blade I want simply by putting it in bypass mode. Why on Earth do they do that, causing more work and danger for me in the long run? I wish they'd either listen to their customers, or someone would release an alternative system. I'd jump ship in a heartbeat.

[J.R. Rutter]

J.R.:
Ohhh...interesting. Someone had suggested making an aluminum extension. That idea scared me...what if there's an accidental firing? Just a piece of wire off to the side seems reasonably safe and usable. Did you have to drill and tap it, or is it just bolted through the brake? This would save me a whole lot of trouble for the cost of one stupid brake. Have you ever run into trouble where it looses sense of the blade during use? Does it just spin down or will it keep going?

Thanks!

I just used a coarse threaded bolt that was close in diameter to the holes in the brake and it self-threaded. The wire is 10 or 12 gauge solid, so it is pretty stiff. I have not had it move at all during use, so I don't know what happens. I have had normal blades where the gap is right on the edge of being too big and saw will sense the blade and start up, but then be flashing after shut down and require adjustment. So I'm guessing that it would work fine until you power off.

[Larry Edgerton]

No problem. I was looking at it and a blade I have for a small Makita, 4 1/2" I think and then at one of the larger bearings a touch smaller on my shaper wall. If a guy wanted to follow a curve such as on a fretboard a setup like that would do it. I'm just thinking out loud, not really making a suggestion.

I read your posts and don't respond because its not my area but I do get some jigging ideas from you, thanks.

Larry