Local Channels and 16:9

[Mark Bolton]

Hey all,.. we have two tv's. Both "modern". One sony bravia and another (cant remember the brand but brand new). Both flat screens, both DTV ready and so on. Well.. we have no cable package (no cable box) just the cable running into the back of the TV's with basic channels. On an auto scan it finds about 30 channels. Many are duplicates of low number channels (4, 4.1, 5, 5.1, etc) of analog and digital channels. The digitals are the .1 numbers. It finds several analogs with no digital match. Then it finds a hand full of high number digital channels (like 89.261, 89.262) that are also duplicates of the low channels. Well of course the high numbers are super high definition, great picture, 16:9, fantastic. My gripe is that there are several of the low channels that have no HD match in the high channels yet they seem to be broadcasting in 16:9 yet the TV's only recognize them as 4:3. This means when the TV's are set to normal view on the screen the image is zoomed in so to speak. If there is a banner or a sub-title, it will run off the left and right of the screen and there is no setting I have found to allow me to see the entire screen.

The smaller of the two tvs is brand new and has a setting something to the effect of "use the stations broadcast size" as a setting for picture size and you still do not see the entire picture. Its very annoying. This is the case whether your on the analog channel or the digital channel. I have gone into the channels list and hidden any of the analog channels that have a digital duplicate but check them occasionally just to see but still no luck.

Any ideas on remedy?

[David Masters]

Look at the aspect function on your TV remote (aspect, screen, or format), or look through your TV's instruction manual on setting the correct aspect ratio?

[Jim Koepke]

This happens on one news program we watch. Not sure if it is the broadcaster, the satellite company or the TV. It wouldn't surprise me if it was the satellite provider. We haven't paid the up charge for HD service.

It is annoying at times, but like I said it only seems to happen with one station.

jtk

[Mark Bolton]

I have tried all the screen aspect settings. Full, wide, zoom, normal, 4:3, and so on. They have no effect.

On the channels with the hd (high number) match, and some of the low channels, the picture is fine on the digital version. The analog is chopped but the dtv version is 16:9. I have a feeling its something in the way the channel is broadcast or delivered too. Just really annoys me.

[Duane Meadows]

If the broadcaster is insetting a 4:3 pix in a 16:9 frame... nothing much you can do. Zoom may help, but won't eliminate the effect! I've seen many strange formatting things, but it is getting better as broadcasters get more accustomed to HD.

With digital processing, its possible to insert any size picture into an HD format. Your TV can't "fix" all of them! It can rescale a 640X480 pix to HD but won't resize 640X480 inserted info a 1920X1080 frame... the TV is still seeing HD.

[Pat Barry]

All the channels are digital now. Analog broadcasting is kaput. What you have is Std Def and Hi Def. Picture quality is proportional to signal strength. You may need (I do) a better antenna

[Brian Elfert]

A lot of broadcast stations are sending everything in 16:9 now. If you still have a 4:3 TV, or if your cable TV still has SD channels you'll see a cut off picture.

Nothing you do on your TV will fix it if the picture is being cut off before being broadcast. I remember the local NBC station doing this already years ago. When ER was still on the air the edges of the picture were cut off if you had a 4:3 TV.

[John McClanahan]

We have a brand new TV with the hi-def cable box and a few of the channels are chopped off on all sides, as if they were zoomed. Changing the aspect doesn't correct it for us, either.


John

[Duane Meadows]

All the channels are digital now. Analog broadcasting is kaput. What you have is Std Def and Hi Def. Picture quality is proportional to signal strength. You may need (I do) a better antenna

With analog, to a degree picture quality was proportional to signal strength. Only to the point all snow was gone.

With digital, Once you have enough signal strength that the picture doesn't pixelate(break up in little squares or freeze up), the picture is good as it gets and any further increase will not improve picture! One of the advantages of digital... you pretty much have a picture, or you don't. A better antenna MAY get you more channels, but unless you have pixelization/freezing/audio dropout issues, it will not get any better picture.

[Duane Meadows]

We have a brand new TV with the hi-def cable box and a few of the channels are chopped off on all sides, as if they were zoomed. Changing the aspect doesn't correct it for us, either.


John

Does your HD cable box have aspect ratio setting, and is it setup to output to the correct(HD, 16x9) tv? Things can get really crazy when you have two devices trying to control picture size!

[Scott Hackler]

The OP stated they have cable TV, but no converter (digital or HDTV) box. That means that the analog channels (usually channels 2 through 60 or so) are analog and will never display a signal that will trigger the TV to "fill" the screen. The screen resolution just isn't there. The HDTV or digital channels that the TV does pick up (in the higher numbers) are generally a convenience item from the cable TV provider as a freebie broadcast. Simply put, if a local station broadcasts a HDTV signal out into the sky, the CATV company will likely stick it on the plant for folks with digital/HDTV tuners in their newer TVs.

The lure of HDTV is a strong one. The picture is so much better that you can usually justify the $6-10 a month extra for a HDTV converter box to receive ALL of the HDTV channels available to your package. I don't even watch non-HDTV channels anymore.

Having said that, you should be aware that 16:9 HDTV signals will only be wide screen (fill your HDTV) if they have been filmed using HDTV cameras. Don't expect reruns of Gilligan's Island to fill your HDTV. It is going to have black bars on the sides because it was never filmed for a rectangle screen. Also, even IF you watch 100% HDTV channels, occasionally you will see a movie with black bars on the top and bottom of the screen, because that movie was filmed in 2.35:1 (CinemaScope extra wide). No ways around it unless you zoom in, but then you loose side screen material. Think Ben Hur, Star Wars and most of the major blockbusters.

Duane is correct on his statements as well. With digital, it is either perfect or unwatchable...no gray area. Since your still watching mostly analog, signal strength is related to picture quality only in so much as IF you have "snowy" pictures. But perfect analog signal will NEVER look as good as standard definition digital and high definition.

Most HDTV cable/dish boxes have a video output setting, for HDTV's it should be set at 1080i or 1080p for the correct resolution to your HDTV. 480i for regular older sets.

[Pat Barry]

With analog, to a degree picture quality was proportional to signal strength. Only to the point all snow was gone.

With digital, Once you have enough signal strength that the picture doesn't pixelate(break up in little squares or freeze up), the picture is good as it gets and any further increase will not improve picture! One of the advantages of digital... you pretty much have a picture, or you don't. A better antenna MAY get you more channels, but unless you have pixelization/freezing/audio dropout issues, it will not get any better picture.

Yes - you are correct Duane. Its the pixelation - picture breakup where the antenna helps but an amplified antenna gets me at least twice as many channels where I live than does the standard one. I'm comparing one of those RCA indoor square plate antenna ($15.99 at best buy) vs a Terk amplified antenna ($79.99 at best buy). I should have read the OP a little closer as I thought picture quality was the issue, not aspect ratio. The antenna won't do a thing for the picture format / size problem.

[Pat Barry]

Duane is correct on his statements as well. With digital, it is either perfect or unwatchable...no gray area.

This is simply not true. A true statement would be that when the signal strength is adequate the picture will be perfect. If the signal strength is marginal then the picture will be pixelated or fade in and out. Its only a binary problem for that moment in time in other words. That's a curse of digital. With the old analog signal the TV was much more tolerant. Now, because of the shift to digital and the higher broadcast frequencies, the signal strength is much more of a problem because there is no tolerance. The old signal would just give you a snowy picture - now you don't get a picture.

[Pat Barry]

Hey all,.. we have two tv's. Both "modern". One sony bravia and another (cant remember the brand but brand new). Both flat screens, both DTV ready and so on. Well.. we have no cable package (no cable box) just the cable running into the back of the TV's with basic channels. On an auto scan it finds about 30 channels. Many are duplicates of low number channels (4, 4.1, 5, 5.1, etc) of analog and digital channels. The digitals are the .1 numbers. It finds several analogs with no digital match. Then it finds a hand full of high number digital channels (like 89.261, 89.262) that are also duplicates of the low channels. Well of course the high numbers are super high definition, great picture, 16:9, fantastic. My gripe is that there are several of the low channels that have no HD match in the high channels yet they seem to be broadcasting in 16:9 yet the TV's only recognize them as 4:3. This means when the TV's are set to normal view on the screen the image is zoomed in so to speak. If there is a banner or a sub-title, it will run off the left and right of the screen and there is no setting I have found to allow me to see the entire screen.

The smaller of the two tvs is brand new and has a setting something to the effect of "use the stations broadcast size" as a setting for picture size and you still do not see the entire picture. Its very annoying. This is the case whether your on the analog channel or the digital channel. I have gone into the channels list and hidden any of the analog channels that have a digital duplicate but check them occasionally just to see but still no luck.

Any ideas on remedy?

I may have misunderstood your situation as pointed out by Scott. If you have a cable going into your TV, where is it coming from? I assumed your own antenna. If its the cable company cable then all bets are off.

[Scott Hackler]

This is simply not true. A true statement would be that when the signal strength is adequate the picture will be perfect. If the signal strength is marginal then the picture will be pixelated or fade in and out. Its only a binary problem for that moment in time in other words. That's a curse of digital. With the old analog signal the TV was much more tolerant. Now, because of the shift to digital and the higher broadcast frequencies, the signal strength is much more of a problem because there is no tolerance. The old signal would just give you a snowy picture - now you don't get a picture.

Not to mince words with you Pat, but it seems like you're nit picking and looking for an argument.

As stated before, a CLEAR digital (or HDTV) picture will NOT be enhanced by more signal. A poor or low digital signal will produce an un-watchable or no picture at all. In fact, the measured signal strength of a digital carrier can still product a 100% perfect picture even with signal levels so low that it would cause a very bad picture on an analog channel. That is NOT the issue Mark stated. He is subscribing to cable TV and trying to make the most of the package he is getting (as per the original post).

Mark, I would investigate the converter options with your cable TV provider. If nothing else, try it for a month and then decide if the additional cost is worth it to you.

For what it is worth....I just started my 21st year in the industry, so that does give me some insight to the issue and topic discussed....