Yet another Electrical question/request for advice

[Mike Heidrick]

Well, that is a slight concern. Ill need to recheck the service panel, but I seem to recall that the Panel still has several open slots available. That may be a bit like saying "How can I be over drawn? I still have checks left in my checkbook", so some verifying of what is being drawn from the panel is, indeed in order.

When you call the power company and ask for the meter to be pulled you can also request a dosconnect at the street or wherever. They will then disconnect the service at the transformer as well. Then no hot lugs at the meter base.

[William C Rogers]

All great responses. Thanks guys. It should me mentioned, that there will be major changes in the not too distant future. A new garage/shop will be in the offing in the next 2 years or so. So the plan I am working on now, is just a stop gap until the new space is built.Still, the 200 amp main service vs. a seperate metered drop is one to ponder. I think that the 200 amp upgrade to the house, with a sub panel to the garage, is probably the best route right now just as Joe described.

When I built my house last year I went with a 400 amp service with a 100 amp sub panel to my shop (75 feet from the house). I'm not suggesting 400amp, however when I had my shop in Indy I had 2 meters. The electric rates there were based on usage. So I was paying 1/2 as much as the house for much less usage. If you look at two meters you might want to check with your electric company on the rate structure.

[Jim Seyfried]

If you look at two meters you might want to check with your electric company on the rate structure.

I built my pole barn before I built my house and have a 200amp service to each. Here the power company does charge extra for the pole barn. The daily use makes an easy comparison. From recent bills I found I paid $2.32 for 12kWh for the PB and $3.74 for 25kWh for the house. That is about $0.50 extra per day for the same amount of electrical use. At that usage it costs me an extra $180 a year! (now I wish I hadn't figured it out) When I used it for a construction business it made it easy to keep track as an expense though. I just ran natural gas to the PB and went through this type of calculation for that. It would have cost an extra $14 a month just for the meter plus extra for the gas, so I ran it from the house even though it was twice as long of a run.

[John Donhowe]

John-

Given your circumstances, IMO you're on the right track. First, I assume that 100 amps is sufficient for your current overall household needs. Keep in mind that the 100 amp limit is based on the total usage at any given time, which could be exceeded if you're running a lot of high usage units all at once- electric water heater, A/C, electric range and oven, electric dryer, hot tub, electric heat, etc., etc. Assuming you're not doing that, figure out what appliances you would conceivably use simultaneously, and figure out how much "headroom", i.e., more amps you can use and still remain less than 100 amps.

In the same vein, running a line from your main box to a 60 amp panel in the garage makes a lot of sense to me. It will give you a lot of flexibility in adding a bunch of circuits in your garage. Bear in mind that you'll almost certainly never use a full 60 amps- most likely no more than 30-35, with one power tool and maybe a dust collector, plus lights- no worse than running a dryer.

Sure, who wouldn't want the flexibility of 200 amp service, but if this is a stopgap measure anyway, it makes sense to me, and I think would be sufficient for future upgrades, both to tool needs and upgrades to incoming house service. JMHO, as a non-electrician, but who's done several rewiring projects over the years. Good luck!

[John McBride]

John-

Given your circumstances, IMO you're on the right track. First, I assume that 100 amps is sufficient for your current overall household needs. Keep in mind that the 100 amp limit is based on the total usage at any given time, which could be exceeded if you're running a lot of high usage units all at once- electric water heater, A/C, electric range and oven, electric dryer, hot tub, electric heat, etc., etc. Assuming you're not doing that, figure out what appliances you would conceivably use simultaneously, and figure out how much "headroom", i.e., more amps you can use and still remain less than 100 amps.

In the same vein, running a line from your main box to a 60 amp panel in the garage makes a lot of sense to me. It will give you a lot of flexibility in adding a bunch of circuits in your garage. Bear in mind that you'll almost certainly never use a full 60 amps- most likely no more than 30-35, with one power tool and maybe a dust collector, plus lights- no worse than running a dryer.

Sure, who wouldn't want the flexibility of 200 amp service, but if this is a stopgap measure anyway, it makes sense to me, and I think would be sufficient for future upgrades, both to tool needs and upgrades to incoming house service. JMHO, as a non-electrician, but who's done several rewiring projects over the years. Good luck!

Thanks John. I kind of thought so too. The real need in the garage is powering the Inca jointer/planer, the table saw, and some sort of 110v dust collector. One of those, and the ... Say shop vac as dust collector, would be the only things being run at the same time. Add to that lights, and 6 outlets, pretty much is what is needed for the shop to be use able.

Sure, I would love to have huge powe, and full size production machines, but for what I am doing this set up gets me rolling and productive.

[Chris Friesen]

Something to consider...you could design the subpanel and feeder line with the assumption that it'll be upgraded later, then feed it through a breaker on the main panel sized for what you *need* (and can spare) currently.

Also, you may not really need to upgrade your main service. For comparison, I've got a 1230 sq foot house with a 100A service and I've never popped the main breaker in 9 years. I've got a 3HP planer, 3HP cabinet saw, 2HP Bandsaw, 8" jointer, drill press, small compressor, 1.5HP dust collector, 16 120V outlets, 5 240V outlets, and a bunch of 4'-T8 lighting. The shop is powered via a 100A panel that is fed by a 40A breaker in the main panel.

I'm in the Canadian prairies so my A/C demands are relatively low, and I've got gas heat. But my range and clothes dryer are electric.

And as another data point, when I wired my shop it was cheaper for me to buy a regular electrical panel (where the panel has a main breaker) than to buy a special subpanel. The regular panel came as part of a bundle with a bunch of breakers (of whatever sizes I wanted), and the main breaker on my subpanel is a convenient way to "safe" most of the power tools.

[Steve Peterson]

I ran my shop with no problems on a 50A sub-panel. This works just fine for a 1 person shop. John's 12x24 shop sounds like a 1 person shop. Mine was around 400sf.

The largest load that would be running at the same time would be a 5hp tablesaw, a 5hp ClearVue dust collector, a 120V window air conditioner, 4 4' double tube fluorescent lights, and a ceiling mounted air filter. I made sure to keep the air conditioner on a different circuit than the other 120V circuits that will be on at the same time. This prevents overloading one leg of the 240V lines.

The only other limit is to wait for the ClearVue to come up to speed before turning on the tablesaw. I am not sure if one 50A breaker would have enough power for both 30A loads to start up at the same time. Running currents are less than 20A for each. If I had a choice, I would have selected a 3hp tablesaw.

Steve

[paul cottingham]

For what it's worth, I run my whole house, including my heat pump, and electric hot water tank, on a 125 amp service. Never been a problem, and my monthly bill reflects that I never approach the limit of my service.

Mind you, I am a mostly hand tool guy, but I do run a saw, planer and jointer with dust collection regularly.

[John McBride]

For what it's worth, I run my whole house, including my heat pump, and electric hot water tank, on a 125 amp service. Never been a problem, and my monthly bill reflects that I never approach the limit of my service.

Mind you, I am a mostly hand tool guy, but I do run a saw, planer and jointer with dust collection regularly.

Thanks guys. Based on what the electrition says, 60 amps is fine for a sub panel for the shop. There is plenty of room in my main service panel he says. Looks like I am a "go" to power up the shop. Now....just need to pay the electriction