Dust is dangerous

[Chris Parks]

However, broadly speaking, the exposures and health problems that folks get in hobbies and occupationally are many times not attributable to such.

So what would they be attributable too? Broadly speaking that is a comment that means nothing.

[David Ragan]

So what would they be attributable too? Broadly speaking that is a comment that means nothing.

Please consult the literature for a comprehensive discussion of chronic lung disease. Google Scholar is good.

'Broadly speaking' is a term that I use to mean 'it is common knowledge' (in that particular field)--whilst not wanting to get into citing references.

Kinda like saying 'broadly speaking, sanding everything to 400 grit is not really necessary for a good finish', or 'broadly speaking, setting your chipbreaker really close to your edge will give better results'. The term 'broadly speaking' also allows for exceptions. Cause we all know there are exceptions to everything. The gray areas.

My apologies if I confused anyone

[Chris Parks]

Please consult the literature for a comprehensive discussion of chronic lung disease. Google Scholar is good.

'Broadly speaking' is a term that I use to mean 'it is common knowledge' (in that particular field)--whilst not wanting to get into citing references.

Kinda like saying 'broadly speaking, sanding everything to 400 grit is not really necessary for a good finish', or 'broadly speaking, setting your chipbreaker really close to your edge will give better results'. The term 'broadly speaking' also allows for exceptions. Cause we all know there are exceptions to everything. The gray areas.

My apologies if I confused anyone

You still haven't told us why exposure to woodworking dust does not broadly speaking have any attributable effect on that individual.

[Phil Thien]

You still haven't told us why exposure to woodworking dust does not broadly speaking have any attributable effect on that individual.

Chris, he is simply saying they can't prove cause and effect, which is different from saying there is no cause and effect.

Dr. Ragan feels (I hope I'm not stepping on toes) that there IS cause and effect, just that it isn't easily proven. That can be because damage can take years to show up. Also, there may be other contributing factors (someone may have smoked, for example).

The problem is complicated, it isn't cut and dried, that is for sure.

[David Ragan]

Thanks Phil-

"However, broadly speaking, the exposures and health problems that folks get in hobbies and occupationally are many times not attributable to such."

Exactly what I meant was that many times the Medical Professional/Provider may not attribute a disease (eg, chronic lung disease) to the cause (oops...."associated/dependent variable"), ie wood dust, et al hobby/work factors.

So, from a Public Health point of view---how can we (as a Society) expect individuals to take proper precautions/preventive steps when the Medical Professional/Provider may not consider various hobby/occupational factors, in, for instance, chronic lung disease?

And, many of these chronic problems are multifactorial.

(A disclaimer: Please note these are my personal views, and not necessarily those of my employer.)

[John Sanford]

Likewise, an individual would more than likely have to work an entire lifetime in an extremely dust laden environment to experience adverse effects.

ahh, but the catch is, "an entire lifetime" can be a much shorter period of time when enough dust is in play.

[Alex Stace]

true this would be hard to quantify, for the hobbiest how would they quantify the damage done by dust vs VOCs and other things from finishing etc?

[Stan Calow]

"they kept arguing that it wasn't toxic, therefore it was fine." What do they think toxic means? Its toxic like asbestos is toxic.

[John Sanford]

"they kept arguing that it wasn't toxic, therefore it was fine." What do they think toxic means? Its toxic like asbestos is toxic.

Every toxicologist will tell you "it's the dose that makes the poison." Our bodies have the ability to handle an enormous variety of toxins with little to no effect. My favorite example is arsenic, which as anybody with even a passing awareness of popular culture knows should never be put into the hands of ladies with a fondness for old lace. Yet each of us, on average, consume enough arsenic in a year to kill a horse. Every year. That's a lot of dead horses. Another example more familiar to many is ethanol, a toxin. Every year people die from straight up alcohol poisoning, and that doesn't even consider those who die from other alcohol related maladies afflicting the liver and such. Yet in smaller quantities, alcohol is harmless and may even be good for your body.

[Don Jordan]

I was a finish carpenter for 20 plus years in high end residential construction. I used a lot of solid wood milled from rough lumber and not much particle board and very little mdf if any. I ended up with asthma at age 39 and I attribute it to several years of breathing sawdust, especially sanding. I was particularly careful not to work around painters, especially when spraying lacquers.

I am retiring from my current profession (indoors behind a computer) next Monday and setting up my wood shop. I am definitely spending money on a decent dust collection system so I can enjoy woodworking again and not worry about whether I can breathe or not.

Once you loose your health you don't get to buy another one.

[Brian Henderson]

I was a finish carpenter for 20 plus years in high end residential construction. I used a lot of solid wood milled from rough lumber and not much particle board and very little mdf if any. I ended up with asthma at age 39 and I attribute it to several years of breathing sawdust, especially sanding. I was particularly careful not to work around painters, especially when spraying lacquers.

I am retiring from my current profession (indoors behind a computer) next Monday and setting up my wood shop. I am definitely spending money on a decent dust collection system so I can enjoy woodworking again and not worry about whether I can breathe or not.

Once you loose your health you don't get to buy another one.

+1. Aw heck, +100!

[Chris Parks]

The problem is complicated, it isn't cut and dried, that is for sure.

People who have the problem will tell you it is cut and dried, just ask one or two and read some of the responses to this thread.

[Karl Andersson]

Hi folks,
I don’t mean to dredge up an older thread that might better be left asleep, but I just wanted to add a few sources and points regarding wood dust hazards and other hazards our hobbies may expose us to.

If it matters to you, I have been an Occupational Safety and Health manager and Industrial Hygienist in the construction and maritime industries, and military operations for over 25 years.

Unfortunately, wood dust hazards, whether health hazards or fire hazards, are difficult to identify with precision.

The health hazards are proven and known – the problem is, not everyone with the same exposure gets the same disease. This is typical of any CHRONIC illness caused by chronic exposure; for instance, millions of shipyard workers worked with asbestos and did not develop disease, only a few hundred thousand or a million were unlucky enough through specific exposures and probably their genetics to get sick (10-30 years after exposure). Similarly, many woodworkers in manufacturing or hobbyists will likely go a lifetime without developing illnesses related to wood dust. The problem is, as has been pointed out, if you do develop most chronic illnesses, you’re usually stuck with that disability for the rest of your life.

ACUTE health hazards are rare from “normal” wood dust –these are the immediate allergic or toxic reactions that some woods, especially certain tropical woods, cause during or right after exposure. There are plenty of warnings available online and from lumber suppliers identifying which woods have toxic or allergenic properties.

Explosion hazards exist whenever fine dust is produced from organic materials (coal, wood, walnut shells, flour, etc.), it is enclosed at a specific density in the air, and an ignition source is provided. The video of the creamer is a good example of airborne flammability, but consider what they could have produced if they had contained the dust in a room or tank. Not just a fireball, but a true detonation-style explosion. Fortunately, that sort of thing doesn’t happen often, but you certainly don’t want to be the one woodworker in 100k that it does happen to. It happened in a Domino Sugar packaging plant in Baltimore a few years ago (explosion blew all the windows and caused a fire). I have not personally investigated many incidents involving wood dust in my industries; there was an open-air dust flash due to an unvented sanding operation in an “alcove” off of a main workshop; wood dust in the air was ignited by the arcs inside the sander motor. This singed some hair and scared the hell out of everyone in the shop, but it was one of those things that you could almost never repeat. I’ve also investigated two fatal incidents where workers were using crushed nut shells (walnut and pecan) as abrasive blasting media inside metal storage tanks; static sparks from the blasting nozzle ignited the organic dust and there were true explosions as a result. The biggest common fire hazard posed by wood dust is simply accumulation of combustible materials on hot tool surfaces or inside motors causing fires that spread to all dusty surfaces and eventually to combustible structures.

Some things to consider about woodworking hobbyist dust hazards:
1. The shops are usually smaller than commercial ones, so it would possibly be easier to develop a high airborne concentration (both flammable dust and health hazard).
2. Because normal physicians are generally unfamiliar with woodworking hazards, unless a person is evaluated by a board certified occupational medicine physician, the diagnosis probably wouldn’t identify home wood dust exposure even if a person was sick from it. Besides, few organizations look at chronic home exposures –sometimes CDC, HHS, or CPSC.
3. Many hobby woodworkers, me included, are also hobby home remodelers/ builders, metal workers, engine repairers, etc. One of the main properties that make wood dust, coal, silica, and asbestos long-term hazards is that they cannot be easily dissolved or digested in the lungs, so the body makes a scar around the particles. If you have a number of hobbies and activities that expose you to airborne particles of these here and there, the cumulative effect could be as bad as if you worked in a commercial job with just one of them. Add to that the periodic damage caused by VOCs from finishing, bleach from cleaning, etc. etc....

OK, not trying to be preachy, I just think you should make decisions about your own health from a position of accurate knowledge.

If you want to see statistics for dust-related illnesses by industry, the Bureau of Labor Statistics posts rates every year. They are usually 2 years behind because it takes a while to gather and crunch the data. The rate of illnesses is shown as the number of workers who filed an illness claim out of every 10,000 workers. In 2013, for dust-related lung diseases, Coal miners had a rate of 22.3; wood products manufacturers’ rate was 2.2, and “Other wood products manufacturers”, including millwork was 3.5, while concrete manufacturing was 1.2. Mostindustries are zero. Now this data is not broken down by WHAT dust caused whatdisease, but in these wood manufacturing industries you may assume most of them are wood dust-related. To see the whole report, go to: http://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/osh/os/ostb3969.pdf

Every hobby and commercial woodworker should spend at least as much time on their knowledge of safety and health hazards and precautions as they do researching their tools. Know what personal protective equipment and engineering controls are recommended by manufacturers, OSHA, and NIOSH (in the U.S.), why it is recommended and how to use it properly. If you want to use anything more than a dustmask (unrated white mask from Home Depot), learn to choose and fit it properly.If you want/ need to use a mask with replaceable filters – i.e., a tight-fitting filter respirator – talk to your doctor and see about getting an EKG and pulmonary functions test; better yet, get a referral to an Occ Doc and tell them you want a respirator use evaluation. Read the instructions and learn how to use it correctly. Two of the worst things that can happen with respirators (and I’ve seen plenty of both);people thinking they are protected when they aren’t, either from using the wrong respirator or not using the right one correctly, therefore getting exposed to the hazard AND people hyperventilating and passing out or having heart attacks because their lungs couldn’t handle breathing through a filter respirator - even in training scenarios.

I’m not saying “be paranoid and sell your tools and hide under a rock”, but ignorance is the greatest hazard, followed closely by complacency.

Regards,
Karl

[Phil Thien]

If you want to see statistics for dust-related illnesses by industry, the Bureau of Labor Statistics posts rates every year. They are usually 2 years behind because it takes a while to gather and crunch the data. The rate of illnesses is shown as the number of workers who filed an illness claim out of every 10,000 workers. In 2013, for dust-related lung diseases, Coal miners had a rate of 22.3; wood products manufacturers’ rate was 2.2, and “Other wood products manufacturers”, including millwork was 3.5, while concrete manufacturing was 1.2. Mostindustries are zero. Now this data is not broken down by WHAT dust caused whatdisease, but in these wood manufacturing industries you may assume most of them are wood dust-related. To see the whole report, go to: http://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/osh/os/ostb3969.pdf

Also from the report you linked (all respiratory values):

Construction, .7
Construction of buildings, .5.
General merchandise stores, 2.1
Warehouse clubs, 3.1
Education services (College, universities, and professional schools), 2.4

In order to assume that those for the woodworking-related categories are wood-dust related, there would have to be corresponding occupational illnesses for the other categories, right? After all, the report is titled "Incidence rates1 of nonfatal occupational illness, by industry and category of illness, 2013."

So for "Educational services," is that some communicable disease like pneumonia or something?

What about "General merchandise stores" and "Warehouse clubs?"

[Phil Thien]

People who have the problem will tell you it is cut and dried, just ask one or two and read some of the responses to this thread.

By your logic, all people are allergic to peanuts because some people are allergic to peanuts.

Luckily, things aren't quite that simple.