Dust is dangerous

[Brian Henderson]

I ended up getting into a discussion over on YouTube on a video of Adam Savage, of Mythbusters fame, doing woodworking. He was grinding down LDF, which he said had no formaldehyde, and making tons and tons of sawdust with no dust collection and no mask. I pointed out that it was dangerous to do, the dust could get into his lungs and cause breathing problems, not only now, but in the future. I was amazed at how many people couldn't get it through their heads that dust, in and of itself, is dangerous to breathe in, they kept arguing that it wasn't toxic, therefore it was fine.

Eventually, I just gave up. What do you say to such people who haven't got a clue?

[Mark Bolton]

You just let them suffer. ;-).

I do think people get overblown with regards to dust (especially with regards to explosion) but there isnt much you can do. You cant get much more inert than flour and if someone isnt aware of bakers lung then they just get what they get.

[Myk Rian]

You come here and tell us about it, then give us a link to it.
Hey, we can help your cause.

[John TenEyck]

The old adage about you can lead a horse to water remains true. If people don't want to listen to reason there's often not much you can do. Perhaps showing them some links to research reports showing the negative health effects of fine particles would help convince a few, then again, maybe not. Hey, people smoke cigarettes and know they might get cancer. Do you really expect them to take wood dust seriously?

John

[Erik Loza]

You would be amazed at how many shops will spend tens of thousands of dollars for for a sliding panel saw or edgebander, then run the cheapest dust collection they can find. In my experience, hobbyists and home guys always pay more attention to this sort of thing. "Gotta' get the job out the door!..."

Erik Loza
Minimax

[Mel Fulks]

Regular cooking flour can explode in the air. Even happened on a segment of the old TV show BEAT THE CLOCK once ,don't think they ever ran the film though.

[Alan Schwabacher]

Google "wood dust toxicity" and there's no shortage of info. Some of it is pretty reliable: OSHA https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/woo..._wooddust.html begins its discussion with

"Exposure to wood dust has long been associated with a variety of adverse health effects, including dermatitis, allergic respiratory effects, mucosal and nonallergic respiratory effects, and cancer."

[John Coloccia]

I ended up getting into a discussion over on YouTube on a video of Adam Savage, of Mythbusters fame, doing woodworking. He was grinding down LDF, which he said had no formaldehyde, and making tons and tons of sawdust with no dust collection and no mask. I pointed out that it was dangerous to do, the dust could get into his lungs and cause breathing problems, not only now, but in the future. I was amazed at how many people couldn't get it through their heads that dust, in and of itself, is dangerous to breathe in, they kept arguing that it wasn't toxic, therefore it was fine.

Eventually, I just gave up. What do you say to such people who haven't got a clue?

I do a good job of avoiding discussions like that these days, but I ESPECIALLY just remove myself entirely when it's random internet people that I couldn't give two flips about. I occasionally pipe up on a forum like SMC, because at least there's some connection here, but it really doesn't occur to me that most of these people are worth even a nano-second of my time, and half of them are adolescent trolls just looking to make trouble anyway.

[Mark Bolton]

Google "wood dust toxicity" and there's no shortage of info. Some of it is pretty reliable: OSHA https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/woo..._wooddust.html begins its discussion with

"Exposure to wood dust has long been associated with a variety of adverse health effects, including dermatitis, allergic respiratory effects, mucosal and nonallergic respiratory effects, and cancer."

Exposure to any kind of dust in massive amounts is bad. The issue becomes, what is "massive amounts"? I would venture to guess a study could be done that comes to the conclusion that carpet fiber is an issue for hotel workers but it doesnt likely apply to those of us vacuuming our homes.

Im not arguing that home/hobby shop attention to dust control is a waste of time but many many full time woodworkers have operated for their entire (long) lives in shops with virtually zero dust control other than a broom and a shovel. As I have stated here many times, to be in an environment with enough airborne dust to create an explosion or a flash fire you would be unconscious from inhalation. You could simply not breathe in an environment with enough airborne dust to blow. Likewise, an individual would more than likely have to work an entire lifetime in an extremely dust laden environment to experience adverse effects. The same goes for silicosis, black lung, and so on. A coal miner suffers from black lung, but the person who burns a coal stove in their basement will likely never see it.

Now of course some are more susceptible than others, and to error on the side of safety is always wise, but so is rational perspective.

Working in a shop environment heavily laden with dust for 40 years is not the same as doing some recreational (even at a high level) woodworking.

[Frederick Skelly]

What do you say to such people who haven't got a clue?

Id say "Hey, can I interest you in a health insurance policy?"

[Brian Henderson]

Regular cooking flour can explode in the air. Even happened on a segment of the old TV show BEAT THE CLOCK once ,don't think they ever ran the film though.

Funny that you bring that up, since Mythbusters did a show a long time ago showing that flour and sawdust can indeed explode under the right conditions. I hadn't even thought of that, thanks.

[Brian Henderson]

I do a good job of avoiding discussions like that these days, but I ESPECIALLY just remove myself entirely when it's random internet people that I couldn't give two flips about. I occasionally pipe up on a forum like SMC, because at least there's some connection here, but it really doesn't occur to me that most of these people are worth even a nano-second of my time, and half of them are adolescent trolls just looking to make trouble anyway.

Oh, I had just watched the video, noticed how little safety equipment he uses (no guards, with fingers cringe-worthingly close to moving blades), I just posted in the comments, not planning on having a discussion, just a random comment, and it kind of exploded on me. As I said, I gave up responding, it wasn't worth it for exactly the reasons you mention. Most of these people wouldn't know anything about woodworking if it bit them, but they are largely fanboys who defend anything their heroes do, no matter how dangerous it might be.

[glenn bradley]

This is a recurring cartoon at my work. We used to feel this way but, somewhere in the early 2000's the ratio of 'garbage' versus 'valuable content' shifted and the internet as we knew it was lost forever. When I retire I'll dig out a V.32 modem and see if any of the old bulletin boards are still alive. .

Seriously, dust collection is underplayed even by those who should know better. My standard answer to folks starting out when they ask what tool to buy first is "dust collection".

[Mel Fulks]

Brian, glad you liked it and BELIEVED ME. Cuz' I just googled it and did not find a thing on the show, gettin old. When I
was a kid I took a paint can,hooked a six foot piece of garden hose into a hole in side at bottom. Spoon full of flour in can
in front of hose. Toss in small piece of burning paper,press on the top, blow into hose ....BOOM! Not my idea,though,read
it somewhere .

[John Coloccia]

Brian, glad you liked it and BELIEVED ME. Cuz' I just googled it and did not find a thing on the show, gettin old. When I
was a kid I took a paint can,hooked a six foot piece of garden hose into a hole in side at bottom. Spoon full of flour in can
in front of hose. Toss in small piece of burning paper,press on the top, blow into hose ....BOOM! Not my idea,though,read
it somewhere .

I saw Mr. Wizard do that with lycopodium powder. I mean, he did EVERYTHING with lycopodium powder. 30 years later, I still remember lycopodium powder is moss spores. At the time, I thought he was saying "moth sperm", and I was like, "Noooo...you can't say THAT on TV!!"