Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Chosera round waterstones (for stationary work) and Naniwa Stones for Tormek

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Neither here nor there
    Posts
    3,831
    Blog Entries
    6

    Chosera round waterstones (for stationary work) and Naniwa Stones for Tormek

    I am breaking my promise to not start any new sharpening threads. Apologies. Another sharpening thread, but this one is different, I swear. I searched the forum and didn't get anything on this, so hopefully it's not an old discussion.

    I found these Chosera stones in 220mm diameter round versions at Dieter Schmid and at another place in Great Britain. I would like to know if anyone has seen them anywhere with a more favorable exchange rate to the USD. https://www.fine-tools.com/naniwa-chosera-rund.html Yes, I know these are not that practical, but actually I want to build a powered wheel for flattening blades and setting bevels- like a Tormek, but flat. These would be perfect.

    Also I notice they are selling Naniwa stones for the Tormek, which I would also be interested in trying out, but not with the excange rate for dollars to Euro. Anyone seen these anywhere else? http://www.fine-tools.com/Tormek.html I already have the Tormek 4000 grit waterstone, but these are actually made by Naniwa and come in 500, 800, 1000, and 4000. I would like to try the 500 and maybe the 1000. Notice that they don't have the indentations on the sides- they are flat. It seems they would be good for flattening backs.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Wild Wild West USA
    Posts
    1,542
    I don't have anything useful to add but I was thinking the other day how I would like to make my Delta version of the Tormek (sort of) tun a lot faster. Maybe put a speed control on it and or DC motor and zing it up to where it was about throwing water and then back off.

    I don't know what the bozos that designed it were thinking but "Geeeterdone" wasn't one of the things they were going for.

    I know the dry grinders work and run cool if the right stone is used but I kind of like the idea of the wet and not having to breath the grit.

    So I guess I am saying I think there is room for another sharpening thread.
    Sharpening is Facetating.
    Good enough is good enough
    But
    Better is Better.

  3. #3
    What with Chosera stones' propensity for unprovoked cracking, I'm not sure I would want to be near spinning versions of them. Perhaps the binder is different in the round versions.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    'over here' - Ireland
    Posts
    2,532
    It's hard to avoid water fling so far as i can tell Winton. The WorkSharp runs something over 500rpm and while it's absolutely not designed for wet use (potential risk as well as damage given the electrics) I do lightly spritz a little water on the diamond laipdary discs i use to help the cooling. That's when working off the accessory top work surface. It's acceptable, but it does fling some drips - you wouldn't want to wear your best shirt when working.

    It's a very fundamental question. It's easy to stop flying drips with a suitably placed and shaped ring around the outside, but to work properly it needs to project above the side surface of the disc which means that access to flatten backs etc isn't possible.

    The other basic issue with a disc is that if you want to work off the side face to produce flat bevels or whatever you need a means of flattening it. It's not going to wear flat. This may require the ability to track a diamond plate or something across it or the resulting surface may not be flat - although it might be possible to pull off with a diamond plate if there's no nut or spindle projecting up in the centre. Something linke the rubber holder on the Dieter Schmid page that malcolm linkedmight be an option - if the rubber would clip/pop over a rotation disc like that on a WorkSharp or similar.

    I'm not too sure how the Makita flat/wet grinder gets over the 'fling' issue, and while not common there do seem to be large scale industrial powered wet waterstone disc sharpening machines made...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Wild Wild West USA
    Posts
    1,542

    Still nothing useful to add from me.

    It's hard to avoid water fling so far as i can tell Winton
    Hey Ian,
    Not flinging water is the number one feature of my Delta (the last feature on the list is actually sharpening something before Monday morning and time to go to the day job). It would have to run triple as fast as it does currently to even flirt with the possibility of almost being able to consider the remotely possible possibility of some day getting it up enough to fling a drop of water. We are talking elderly hamster in the hamster wheel here.

    you wouldn't want to wear your best shirt when working
    Obviously you haven't seen my best shirt.

    Kidding. I used to wear a lot of Pendleton work shirts until the local store closed and they started selling limited varieties and colors on line for over a hundred dollars each. The store had a fantastic selection in every size. I used to lay them away and pay on them. it was like Christmas when I paid one off. I can make cloths last for ever so I get my money's worth; well when they were a mere $65 each anyway. I have several from back in the '90s that are still beautiful (all wool). Very comfortable in extreme weather.
    But I redress . . .

    PS: it just occurred to me you are talking flat grinder and I was talking upright water wheel running in a trough.
    Sharpening is Facetating.
    Good enough is good enough
    But
    Better is Better.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Neither here nor there
    Posts
    3,831
    Blog Entries
    6
    I am thinking 100 RPM or even less for my spinning waterwheel idea. Consider how slowly we sharpen by hand. I am not trying to grind- just match the speed or maybe a slight bit more. The main thing I would use it for is flattening, but I have drawn plans for something that I like so well I may even try to market it one day. It lets you set the bevel angle on a dial as accurate as you could ever want every time.

    As as for the cracking Choseras, every instance I have seen, which is only a few online, the person soaked the stones. No need to soak Choseras, and also if you do not let any stone dry evenly then it could crack. Naniwa even warns not to soak Choseras.

    Anyway, for now I will probably order the 1k as I need a 1k Chosera and the cost shipped even from Germany is only $40 more than a regular one. I will post a review when I get it.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Wild Wild West USA
    Posts
    1,542
    Cool !
    Yah I was thinking I want mine for grinding quickly a new main bevel.
    Faster easier back flattening would be a huge improvement to.

    I look forward to your future posts.
    Sharpening is Facetating.
    Good enough is good enough
    But
    Better is Better.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    'over here' - Ireland
    Posts
    2,532
    I got a bunch of work shirts from Landsend Winton - lots of size options.

    The Delta is probably a bit like a Tormek - i bought one years ago too thinking that with such a great enormous wheel that it might shift metal reasonably quickly - but no such luck.

    Take care before committing too much money on a low rpm waterstoe based horizontal disc if you want to cut new bevels - if it's over the full width and thickness of a plane iron anyway. As previously a WorkSharp even running as it does at something over 500rpm with an 80grit diamond doesn't really have the cut to do that in any very speedy way. It's faster than a 120 grit waterstone, and a very handy option for lighter jobs and finer finishing - but still pretty slow. (not sure how well they might last longer term though) This was why as posted before i bought the bits to build a cool running fast cutting rig using CBN wheels - it's part built but as yet untested as i diverted into another project. It'd probably be fine if it's for putting on micro bevels and the like.

    I'd imagine Malcolm's proposed waterstone based rig might be a little slower again, but it'd be very good for making easier the jobs normally done by hand on waterstones. I'm sure you're familiar with the Makita Malcolm - there's those that swear by them: http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/m...sersguide.aspx The Highland piece has some interesting things to say about using discs too. I saw a larger industrial scale version of something similar in a video on the web somewhere once, but can't remember where… Maybe YouTube???
    Last edited by ian maybury; 01-25-2015 at 7:25 PM.

  9. #9
    How would you run stones in a wet grinder without the stone getting soaked? I believe the Chosera advise against soaking means not leaving the stone in water continuously. My Chosera 10000 stone crazed after never being in water more than a few minutes. In fact the wettest it ever got was during the flattening process. I would never buy another one. By the way this is a fairly common problem from this maker. Buyer beware.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Neither here nor there
    Posts
    3,831
    Blog Entries
    6
    Ian, yes- the idea is to save elbow grease but not really to make a grinder. The stone would spin at slow speed. The setup is similar to the Makita, but you get the whole stone surface for flattening.

    Mike, the stone would be spritzed in my design as opposed to a bath. As for the Tormek Naniwa stones, I believe they are more like the super stone and not the Chosera. What I don't like about the Tormek with the 4000 grit waterstone is that the slurry washes off the stone. The whole point in a waterstone is the slurry. By the way, you also have to be real careful with the Tormek waterstone as it can easily chip if you let a knife blade catch it at too much angle. Guess how I know that!

    In regards to the cracking of Choseras, they are splash and go. No soaking- none. Soaking is the problem in my opinion. Another thought is drying too fast. I saw this video http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v4i8W3ZGgHE but he later says in the comments that he soaked his stones. Also this guy http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/sh...-3000-cracking soaked his. Certainly they can crack, but it seems two things will prevent it: don't soak them, and let them dry evenly. I stand all my stones (except the Shapton Glass) on edge so they dry evenly. No doubt they require caution and I am a bit concerned about the big round 220mm stone not drying evenly.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Neither here nor there
    Posts
    3,831
    Blog Entries
    6
    Well I just pulled the trigger on the round 1k stone. Couldn't resist. As I said, I have tons of irons to flatten, plus two sets of chisels. I really like the extra surface for flattening and I usually find the 1k stone is the one I use more. I start with a lower grit diamond stone, then go to the 1k waterstone (currently a Shapton). I find that I stay on that stone the longest and then polishing on a 4k then 8k. I may eventually regret the purchase, but curiosity has once again killed the cat... or taken one of his lives. I will post a review of the stone when it arrives. It says shipping is DHL, which I expect will take at least a week. I never know with them. The last thing my friend sent me from Germany via DHL never arrived at all.

    By the way, the Euro is now down to $1.13 to the USD, so if you've been holding out on something from across the pond, now might be the time. The Yen is also still at .0084 to the dollar. My 400 Chosera just got here today. I also got the stainless steel stone holder from tools from Japan. It is a very nice holder, and I have not seen any others that use stainless steel rods. It also has the rubber pad in the middle to help support the stone- not just the two on the ends. I like it a lot. Oh, and fuel surcharges are down for the shipping companies, so even more savings there.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •