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Thread: Found a Stanely Bedrock 602C!

  1. #16
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    Howdy Hans and welcome to the Creek. I am always curious as to where folks call home.

    My knowledge of the collector market is about zilch. For the user market a Bedrock of that size would be unusual unless you found one in a lucky spot like you did.

    I am not sure about collectors desires for the early style Bedrocks. The flat tops always seem to go for more. I do know when collectors get together they like to show off their "bragging rights." Yours might be the rarity someone is looking to have in their cabinet.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  2. #17
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    Hi Hans,

    I'm a user, not a collector, but I look at a lot of planes on Ebay.

    The Stanley Bailey #2 planes are pretty rare, because they are small enough that people that have tried to use them like a normal bench plane report that they are too small to get your fingers between the tote and the frog like a normal bench plane. People normally held them like a block plane.

    Since block planes are cheaper than bench planes, instead of a #2 bench plane I would guess that people did what I did and just bought block planes instead of the #2s. Stanley didn't sell many #2s, probably for the reason I just listed, and thus the rarity for the little bench planes like the #1 and #2.

    The corrugations were to cut down on friction, so there was no need for corrugations on a tiny plane like the #2. So they sold very few #2s that were corrugated.

    Leach reports seeing less corrugated #2 Baileys than even Stanley #1s. The Bedrocks were more expensive than the Bailey series, and they sold a lot less Bedrocks than Baileys. This makes the Bedrock 602Cs truly rare, which is why they sell for so much to collectors.

    The flat sided Bedrocks normally do sell for more than round sided ones.........TO USERS. That is not necessarily the case for collectors. According to Leach's Blood and Gore site, there are a lot less of the corrugated round sided 602Cs than the flat sided ones. Collectors are normally more interested in rarity rather than utility, consequently, I think that the round sided 602 C you have could be worth more, possibly significantly more, than a flat sided 602 C.

    You have a truly rare collectors item plane....do not be in a hurry to sell it. Find out the best way to sell it first, and know what it is worth before you sell it.

    As is, I would guess your Bedrock is worth on the order of at least $1000, perhaps much more. The smooth soled #602 Bedrocks sell for $500 and sometime MUCH more, and the corrugated ones sell for MUCH more than that. It would be worth more if in better shape. That said, it is not in bad shape as it is, as there would appear to be no deep pitting, and the rust does not look bad at all.

    The planes that I see cleaned up generally sell for quite a bit more than ones that are not cleaned up. That said, you can do significant damage to the value of such a plane if you try to clean one up and do not have darned good knowledge of how to carefully and wisely go about what you are doing.

    For example using even really fine sandpaper that is coarse enough that it leaves scratches on the plane will definitely hurt the value to a collector. Also, if the Japanning is reasonably good, I would not do anything more to the Japanning than a careful cleaning of the bed with a soft cloth and mineral spirits.

    I have been working at restoring several planes that I own, and have spent a lot of time learning how to do it carefully, both reading various places, and also by asking questions on this site. There are lots of knowledgeable folks on this site. I have been doing everything by hand to this point, no power tools of any kind what so ever on any of the planes that I have worked on, but that's not to say that power tools should not be used. It's just that hand work is better in my case.

    I am currently working on a Stanley Bailey #4, and have maybe 10 to 20 hours or so in it so far. It is not a quick process by hand, but I think it is worth it for the planes I use, and especially on the ones I inherited from my dad and grandfather.

    That said, I don't work on collector grade planes. I leave them to the collectors who will pay a lot of money for that grade of tool. I work on user grade tools, as I want them to use in my shop. I can't justify the kind of money it takes for collector tools just to use in my shop.

    Of course, everyone knows that the top end collectors would like a tool to be untouched and original in all regards, and to be in mint or near mint condition. There aren't too many of those around. I think, based on what I have seen, but don't know with certainty, that a carefully restored tool may also have a high, but lower, value.

    Again, I am NOT a collector, and if I had that plane, I would look up something like the tool collectors association in your area. You should be able to find it on the net. Thus +1 on what Jim said above. You can talk to that group, the one in our area has a couple of shows a year. Someone, or maybe several, in it will know about such things, or will know someone who does know about such planes with certainty. They will be able to give you the best advise.

    Stew
    Last edited by Stew Denton; 01-25-2015 at 2:51 AM.

  3. #18
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    My 2 cents: first dealers have to make a living. Guys like Patrick Leach and Bob Kaune do this as their profession and have considerable travel in order to gather up tools to sell. In my opinion, they would prefer a tool "as found" as opposed to one that someone attempted to clean, etc. As far as pricing goes, best estimate of pricing is recent historical pricing. You can get said pricing from Ebay or from searching completed auctions that make pricing available. Martin Donnelly does this (at a price) and Fine Tool Journal used to do this (no sure since Clarence sold the mag). If you enlist a dealer to sell it, expect about half of the average retail recent price. If you take it to auction, well, you can figure your costs up front, but the amount you net may vary from less to more. If it were me, I would keep the plane.

    The other issue about giving some of the proceeds to your client, only you know deep inside what to do. In my case, I was given a Stanley 18-1/4 block plane in a bunch of otherwise plane-like looking junk by an acquaintance. He was/is pretty much a ner-do-well that I have given odd jobs to over the years, just to give him a few bucks. The money I've given him never produced any value to me, but was more to help him. In recent years, he started going to auctions and got this box with old tools for a couple of bucks, hence he gave it to me, saying he didn't care what was in it. I reciprocated a month or so later with another odd job.
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

  4. #19
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    Stew, I'm a collector too, well I was in a more profitable phase of my life. You are right about the cleaning. Honestly it's probably worth more to a collector in untouched condition, as they can make it how they want. Personally, if I bought it, I'd take it apart and give it a good cleaning with an oily rag. I don't like perfect mint, Lie Nielsen sells beautiful examples of that for far less. I want to see the history. Not broken parts or neglect, but good honest age is great.

    I've seen the flat top 602C bring $2600 before, back in the day. I've personally never owned one, and I have owned several #1's, for reference of rarity. Today, a roundside 602C would be in the $1500 range in my mind, if I could afford it. Ebay used to be the place to list these. As they went away from the auction format, that avenue of sale has declined. I still see some good stuff sell there sometimes, but I think collectors are slowing down as the economy crashed, and are looking to avoid the fees of ebay if they are selling. Used to be the fees were worth it as it was the only place to get in front of the buyers. They screwed that up by trying to be Amazon though.

    While I'm rambling, keeping the profits is a personal thing, isn't it? Each case is different. I once bought around 10K worth of planes for a few hundred on an auction. I didn't feel like I owed anyone else a slice of the profits. On the other hand, I have split the $20 profit on a 605 with a friend, as it was a personal favor he did for me to acquire the plane.

  5. #20
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    Auctions are dependent upon the auctioneer doing their job in advertising & describing. Selling on an internet site requires the owner/seller to do the same. I don't feel bad getting a good deal at auction, since they are mostly "buyer beware" and too many times I've come out with the fuzzy end of a lollipop.

    What I neglected in my earlier post is exactly what Steve just suggested: take plane apart, clean with oiled rag and don't do any damage!!!!!! When taking screws out, use a bit of "Break Free" (or similar product) so you don't "cam" out any screw heads or worse, break off any screws. Be careful of over tightening when re-assembling. I view it as acceptable to sharpen & try the plane out, unless the blade is close to being used up. Also, stay away from flattening the sole and as much as you may want, don't take any sandpaper to any part of the plane! That thing called "patina" takes many years to build up and can be erased in minutes by a ham fisted amateur (don't ask and I won't tell about my early years).
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

  6. #21
    Well, thanks all for taking some time to reply. I've never participated in an online forum before--it's great.
    So a wipe-down with an oily rag is in in order. I'm really compelled to take a soft-bristle toothbrush to some of the gunk around the screws.
    I'm not so tempted to try and remove any of the screws. If it wasn't an antique I'd spray on some PB Blaster and torque away at them. But, I'm not sure the lubricant wouldn't work it's way under the "patina" and leave me with an awkward

  7. #22
    (Oops, hit send. Hadn't finished)

    I'd don't want to use PB blaster or another penetrating lubricant because I'm worried it might ruin the finish.
    I'm feeling like an all-of-the-above option is in order. I'll try and contact Martin Donnely about a sales history. The seller of the 602C on Ebay contacted me and gave me his track record--he's sold a few previously. Then, I think I set an Ebay auction price and advertise it (with a buy it now price) on the craigslist sites of few major cities.

    Dumb question, if a tool collector is hunting on craigslist are they looking in "tools" or "antiques."

    Any other ideas of how I could cheaply spread the work of an Ebay auction.

    Is there a tool collector magazine it wood be worth posting a classified in?

  8. #23
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    You are indeed fortunate..agree you should be respectful and kind to those that gave you the plane
    Jerry

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Hans Hauge View Post
    (Oops, hit send. Hadn't finished)


    I'll try and contact Martin Donnely about a sales history. The seller of the 602C on Ebay contacted me and gave me his track record--he's sold a few previously. Then, I think I set an Ebay auction price and advertise it (with a buy it now price) on the craigslist sites of few major cities.

    Dumb question, if a tool collector is hunting on craigslist are they looking in "tools" or "antiques."

    It's not Martin or any other dealers' job to figure out what you want for the plane - it's your job. If they spent time doing that for everybody it would occupy all their time, and hurt their business.
    There is no "exact value" for that plane. It varies from day to day and who is interested in buying it. Are you so concerned that you get every possible dollar out of the plane? You have nothing in it - it's all profit. Just list it on Ebay at a very reasonable starting point that will attract lots of bidders, and let it go.
    You're not going to get anywhere near the same exposure on CL, and it's a way more risky way to sell.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Miller View Post
    It's not Martin or any other dealers' job to figure out what you want for the plane - it's your job. If they spent time doing that for everybody it would occupy all their time, and hurt their business.
    There is no "exact value" for that plane. It varies from day to day and who is interested in buying it. Are you so concerned that you get every possible dollar out of the plane? You have nothing in it - it's all profit. Just list it on Ebay at a very reasonable starting point that will attract lots of bidders, and let it go.
    You're not going to get anywhere near the same exposure on CL, and it's a way more risky way to sell.
    Mel's right: if you re-read my post I suggested Donnelly, because you can purchase a CD from him listing auction results going back a number of years. If you were to call him, I'm sure he would make this suggestion. If you subscribe to his auction previews (nice, glossy catalogs) for the year, the CD is provided at no charge.
    If the thunder don't get you, the lightning will.

  11. #26
    I understand that Martin Donnelly would be providing a service that would likely entail a fee. I understand it's not his job to appraise my object free of charge. I don't think I said otherwise. Mel, I am doing what you are referring to as my "job" by doing a little research. I could sell it for $50 and it would all be profit. But, I'd be an idiot. If I can eek $200 to $500 more out the sale by spending a little time strategizing and sitting at the computer it would definitely behoove me to do so.

  12. #27
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    If it were mine, I would have somebody, a photography shop, take photos of it. Especially the toe where it says 602. I would take the lever cap and iron off for some shots but I would not try to remove the frog due to lack of experience. I would not clean it at all, in any way. I would post it on ebay with as many pics as they allow for one auction and I would describe it as follows; "602C Bedrock Plane, type 3 (I think) in as found condition". That's it. I would start the bidding at $19 and set the reserve at $200. I would make it a seven day auction and start it at 6:00 pm Eastern Standard time on Sunday evening. It will not be necessary to post the ebay ad on Craigslist, all the collectors are checking ebay ads and Craigslist both, it would just irritate them to see an ebay ad on Craigslist. When the hammer drops you will know how much it is worth.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "You don't have to give birth to someone to have a family." (Sandra Bullock)




  13. #28
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    Hans,

    Put the tool to use and see if you like it. My #2 gets little use, but when it does come to the bench it is the right plane for the work being done.

    There are a few brushes that are always on my bench. Two are tooth brushes. One has only a round pointed group of bristles, the other is a standard tooth brush. Both wound up in the shop after being used on my teeth. Then there are two ~ 1" paint brushes, nothing fancy. One is what is often called a chip brush. (In my opinion the name comes from a mispronunciation of cheap.) The bristles on it have been cut down to about 3/4". The other is another inexpensive brush with long poly bristles. These are used all the time to clear out wood dust and shavings from planes after use. Maybe in a few centuries this could have an effect on the patina. Nothing I would worry about affecting the value to a collector down the road.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  14. #29
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    As a reference, I was at the local MWTCA meet about a year ago. There was a table with a bunch of plain Jane #2's and a guy walked up with a wad of cash. He picked the two best and paid a total of $400 for both. Now, these weren't 602C's, either. He explained that he decided long ago that he could collect #1 or #2's but at $1000 for one or $200 for the other, he thought the choice was obvious. I asked him how many he had. He said "200." Must be nice to be a collector.
    Last edited by Bruce Haugen; 01-25-2015 at 8:21 PM.

  15. #30
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    Moses's advice on the eBay listing is good. It would get my attention, especially the ending Sunday evening and the low start price.

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