What's a good guide to use for these socket chisels?
I have one of the ones with the little roller on the back, but it doesn't hold this chisel securely.
[OP]
Member
What's a good guide to use for these socket chisels?
I have one of the ones with the little roller on the back, but it doesn't hold this chisel securely.
Member
I like the Kell guide. It's pricey but works very nicely. I just posted a review of it today: http://bloodsweatsawdust.com/2015/01...-honing-guide/
Last edited by Patrick Harper; 01-26-2015 at 9:50 AM.
Blood, sweat, and sawdust
Contributor
I stopped using a guide for my chisels several months ago. One reason was that the Eclipse style guide was fiddly and the Veritas guide let them slip off of 90* too easily. Sharpening my chisels this was slow and frustrating.
Now I use a hollow grind to establish the primary and work the secondary on the stones freehand. It's too easy to do it another way. I estimate the angle by feel and I get sharper edges much faster and with much less fussing around. A couple months ago, I gave up the guide for my plane irons as well. I test on a bit of pine end grain. If it cuts smoothly, I'm done sharpening, If it doesn't, I look to see what's wrong and spend 30 seconds more on the stones.
Give it a try. I think you'll be surprised at how easy it really is.
-- Dan Rode
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." - Aristotle
Member
I tried the freehand thing, but I found that I was going back to the grinder more often due to the fact that you're essentially honing off the heal and the edge of the bevel. Additionally, it only takes about 5 seconds to setup the Kell and Eclipse guides using a stop block. Maybe I was never able to develop my free-hand skills adequately, but I also find that I'm able to pull a burr more quickly with a guide.
Blood, sweat, and sawdust
Contributor
FWIW, I don't work the heel at all when I'm sharpening; only the tip touches the stones. The secondary bevel is steeper than the primary by a couple degrees. The only purpose of the hollow grind is to "erase" the secondary bevel when it becomes too wide. Regrinding for that purpose is pretty rare as I'm a hobbyist and don't use my chisels 7 days per week.
Also, I very often re-work the edge using only my 15k finishing stone or 5k then 15k. Regular touch-ups are the norm for me. It's pretty typical to not raise a burr that can be felt on the fine stones. If I'm chopping, I might go to the 1200 stone as the edge chips and blunts more. In that case, I can feel a burr across the back after maybe 10 strokes.
Originally Posted by Patrick Harper
-- Dan Rode
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." - Aristotle
Member
Here's a list/review of readily available guides for the man (or woman) with sufficient walking around money:
http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/ch...guide-reviews/
That looks like a Greenlee trademark on your chisel. I recall running into the problem of the occasional old bevel edged Greenlee chisel that was too thick below the bevel edge to fit securely into the chisel notches of the Eclipse style guide. I have several Eclipses, so I used a file to alter the angle of the opposing notches on one of them to accommodate the problem without trashing the locating surface of the notch (the file had a safe edge...an auger bit file I imagine). But perhaps you aren't referring to the Eclipse style guide and this isn't the problem.
The difficulty I find with all guides and techniques is maintaining a perfect plane on the flat side of the chisel up through the finer stones/grits and stropping media while alternating strokes between bevel and flat. That's a different topic though I guess.
Contributor
Are you re-working the chisel back when you resharpen?
-- Dan Rode
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." - Aristotle
Member
Daniel, I never developed good enough feedback to consider trying a secondary bevel free-hand. You're right about those fine stones. I can never feel a burr on them, but I always make sure to pull one on a courser stone first.
Blood, sweat, and sawdust
Member
Oh, yes ... always.
Not at the coarser grits, of course. But when I'm done I don't want to see even a faint glimmer of light off a radius or the sight or feel of burr fragments from either side of the edge (with 10X magnification and certainly not with just my reading glasses on).
Take a look at the sites of Brent Beach (http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/Sharpen/sitemap.html) and Steve Elliot (http://bladetest.infillplane.com/htm..._profiles.html) and study the stuff about burrs and wear. In use (and abuse) edges wear on both sides of the edge though it could be relatively minor on the flat side of chisels (that don't start with a corrupt edge). Sharpening requires one to deal with this each time around.
Keep in mind I'm no authority and should be viewed as a dilettante and a boob. Certainly an amateur and hobbyist! Sadly I'm opinionated, and worse, my opinions change. But I can now shave end-grain with plane or chisel and get a waxy, clear surface without fog or the look of scooped ice cream through the early wood of Eastern white pine and soft maple. If I can't, the tool is not sharp because I did sloppy sharpening.
But take a look at the great new (to me site) here: https://scienceofsharp.wordpress.com/
Especially look at the EM images of edges in the sections titled Burrs Part I and Part II. Do some heavy duty thinking about what you imagine to be the integrity of the geometry and the crystalline structure of the steel at the last micron of the edge when you've finished a sharpening sequence.
For me the flat side of a chisel is the greatest challenge because swooping the flat side of a chisel or plane iron over some supposedly flat abrasive surface never works (for me).
[Sorry this came off preachy and pedantic, I'm not quite as bloated and pompous as this makes me sound.]
Last edited by Bob Woodburn; 01-26-2015 at 12:33 PM. Reason: added last line after re-reading
Contributor
Get a 3 sided file and rework the slots on the guide you have to better fit your chisel. For the price of these guides, you could have 3-4 set up for each brand of chisel you own.
Member
http://www.amazon.com/Sharpening-Woo.../dp/B000H6FSLS
Check this link. I use the technique Joel shows and I almost never use a sharpening guide.
Joel uses a cross body motion and there is NO rocking of the tool.
I got the video with a set of Norton water stones I bought many years ago. I use the technique on diamond hones.
You really don't need guides with this technique.
Last edited by lowell holmes; 01-26-2015 at 12:40 PM.
Contributor
There is a school of thought that once the back is flat it never has to be bothered with again.For me the flat side of a chisel is the greatest challenge because swooping the flat side of a chisel or plane iron over some supposedly flat abrasive surface never works (for me).
This is not a school of thought that appeals to me.
My blades do get a little work on the back side at the beginning of each session on the stones. Sharpening regularly helps to lessen the amount of back side wear one has to work. This is the side of some of the premium blades that is not appreciated. The wear pattern is such that the blades work well longer. By the time they display a need for being sharpened they have more wear needing attention.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Contributor
I'm not a sharpening expert. I can only mention what I was taught.
I don't re-work the chisel backs when I sharpen. As I understand it, when the bevel is sharpened, it wears the face back along the length removing defects without thinning the iron. I touch the chisel back to the finishing stone and take 1-2 light strokes but nothing more. It's done mostly to work the burr back to the bevel side to help remove it.
I most definitely do not alternate strokes between back and bevel. In fact, I would not work the back under any circumstances with a guide attached.
This works well for me. Maybe a different method works well for others.
-- Dan Rode
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit." - Aristotle
Contributor
OK, now I don't feel so bad. I always wonder "what am I doing wrong, I don't feel that wire edge"
Some of you expert sharpeners have me convinced that my chisels are not sharp.... but they seem to cut well so I put on that fake smile and just keep pushing on.
I use a hollow grind and I have very little trouble free handing the rest. I rarely need to go course or drop it onto my Tormek. But I am a hobbyist so I also am not using my chisels every day.
Contributor
If they can do the work you need them to do, then they are likely sharp enough. There are some "tests" of sharpness. If they can pass those, then they are likely sharp enough.Some of you expert sharpeners have me convinced that my chisels are not sharp.... but they seem to cut well so I put on that fake smile and just keep pushing on.
My finest stone is an 8000 Norton water stone. I am sure one of the finer stones would give me an improvement, but at some point their is a diminishing return.
As time passes, if you keep at it, you will most likely learn more about sharpening and technique. It is only natural.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
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