Re-finishing Bay Window Seat - NEED HELP

[scott vroom]

John, I shared your concern about applying Enduro poly over Arm-R-Seal. When I called GF several years back they said it was not a problem as long as the solvent finish was completely dry....they said 24-48 hours depending on temp. I've completed a number of projects with that schedule with no issues that I'm aware of. I think it's one of those things were the mfg's are covering their asses to avoid warranty problems with folks that don't allow the solvent to fully dry before top coating.

[John TenEyck]

Thanks Scott. Good to know.

JOhn

[Bill Rodgers]

Thanks guys. Very helpful information. Project is coming along nicely.

[Bill Rodgers]

I just got off the phone with GF and they told me that I should just stick with the Arm-R-Seal, that after it fully cures in about 30 days it'll actually be a more durable and a harder finish than either the GF High Performance or the GF Enduro Clear Poly so that was good news to me. We did not talk about the UV factor however.

Scott - Out of curiosity, what was your reasoning for applying the Enduro Clear over the Arm-R-Seal? Was it more for the UV protection?

[scott vroom]

I just got off the phone with GF and they told me that I should just stick with the Arm-R-Seal, that after it fully cures in about 30 days it'll actually be a more durable and a harder finish than either the GF High Performance or the GF Enduro Clear Poly so that was good news to me. We did not talk about the UV factor however.

Scott - Out of curiosity, what was your reasoning for applying the Enduro Clear over the Arm-R-Seal? Was it more for the UV protection?

Hi Bill,

I just replied to your private note. Enduro doesn't have UV protection whereas High Performance Poly does contain UV inhibitors.

I suggested top coating the Arm-R-Seal with poly because it will provide considerable added solids buildup vs Arm-R-Seal, providing better deep scratch resistance. With Arm-R-Seal you won't get the solids build up, making it more prone to a scratch getting down into the wood. After 30 days cure the water resistance is good on either product.

You can try several coats of Arm-R-Seal only and see if it works for you. You can always top coat later with a clear poly if you decide the added build up is desired.

Good luck & post pics of the finished bench for us!

[John TenEyck]

Well it's now unclear whether or not the Enduro Clear Poly does or does not contain a UV package. When I talked with one of their chemists two years ago I was told it has a better package than what's in HP Poly, and that was one of the primary reasons I tried it. I also tried it because of it's better chemical durability, and that has turned out to be true. But Scott's right, there's no mention of the UV package on their TDS now like it is for HP Poly. So either something has changed or my memory has failed me. But I am positive I was told one of their Enduro products had a better UV package than HP Poly, and process of elimination leaves me with Clear Poly. I think I need to call GF again.

As for the durability of Arm-R-Seal, I have not tested anything superior. It performed as well as any product I tested and better than many, including some other OB varnishes. If you build sufficient film thickness to completely fill all the pores, it will be very durable. The only reason I would top coat it with Clear Poly would be for the added UV protection, but if that's off the table now I see no reason to do so.

John

[Bill Rodgers]

Here's some photos of the project. Since a few of you on here helped me out so much I wanted to show these in appreciation. Thanks again for all the great help!

I first stripped off the old finish.

[Bill Rodgers]

Next I sanded down the seat. Thankfully the sheet was thicker than I would have guessed and I was able to completely remove all the deeper scratches and gouges. I did get into a little more heartwood where the gouges were the worst probably because I had to remove more material. The mouse sander worked great along the edges and up in the corners.

[Bill Rodgers]

After much consideration and a lot of research after talking with a couple of you on here I opted for GF Arm-R-Seal in a satin sheen. I didn't apply any stain as the rest of the window and trim are a light amber color so that was one of the main reasons I went with the slightly amber Arm-R-Seal. After the first coat I was very happy with the appearance. Here's the wet first coat and the dried 2nd coat.

[Bill Rodgers]

I lightly sanded/buffed between coats and here's how it now looks after 4 coats of Arm-R-Seal. It looks great and 100% better than it did when I started and will hopefully last for years. If it were just me, I'd stop now but I have my other half and young kids to worry about so I'm going to build it up with a couple more coats of GF High Performance for extra protection plus it'll have UV protection. The oil based Arm-R-Seal will have about 2 weeks of dry time before I can get some GF HP so it'll be completely dry. Anything I should know before working with the HP? Lightly sand and/or buff between coats...? I'm thinking 2 maybe 3 more coats...?

Thanks again to all of you who helped me out so much along the way and I learned a lot. I'm new to a lot of this woodworking thing and am already looking forward to my next project.

[Bill Rodgers]

My first time working with a water based top coat... I have 2 coats of GF High Performance on now and it's building very nicely for that deeper scratch resistance. GF HP sure is a bit different than an oil based product, it's a much thicker consistency and I would have never guessed it was a milky white in color. The can says that I can thin it with water 10-20%. Since I'm only working on a very flat surface do you guys recommend I thin the last couple coats to really have it lay down very flat? I applied the first 2 coats without thinning it with a brush and it worked nicely but I'm thinking about thinning the last 2 to really have them lay as flat as possible. If yes, what percentage should I thin it with and can I use normal tap water, well water in my case?

[John TenEyck]

Use a foam brush, Bill; there should be no need to thin it. But if you feel the need, 5 - 10% H2O should be more than enough. GF HP Poly will provide UV protection, but it is not nearly as durable in other regards as Arm-R-Seal. In particular, it's chemical resistance is much less robust. I'm not saying it's bad, just no where near as good as Arm-R-Seal. For example, Arm-R-Seal will stand up to straight DNA and lacquer thinner. HP Poly is damaged by both. Same thing for Windex.

John

[Bill Rodgers]

Thanks John. I'll be sure we keep the harsh chemicals off of it. I ended up applying 4 coats of GF HP and I thinned the last one about 10% to have it really lay down as flat as possible. Here's the finished product that I'm very happy with. Thanks again to everybody for all the help along the way!

[scott vroom]

Looks nice Bill.