Re-finishing Bay Window Seat - NEED HELP

[Bill Rodgers]

Hi all. I have a large bay window seat that is in need of refinishing. The previous owners had a small dog that liked to scratch it up and they also watered plants on it that stained the wood. I'm planning on removing the old finish and then re-sanding and prepping the surface to be re-seal and finished.

As far as finishing it, I have done a lot of research and am still unsure what my best option would be. I want something that is very durable for photo frames, candles, plants, and anything else my other half places on it. It gets some sunlight from the windows in the summer months and also may get a little rain if a window is ever mistakenly left open during a storm.

I've looked into regular oil based polyurethane (Minwax, General Finishes, etc.), single part spar urethane/varnish (Minwax Helmsman Spar Urethane), two part spar urethane/varnish, marine based urethane/varnish (Sherwin Williams, Epifanes, etc.), or even an epoxy resin pour.

Most of you guys have a ton more experience with this kind of stuff than I do, being a younger new home owner, so any help would be very appreciated. What would you recommend I finish it with? Please be very specific as to brand name and exact line of finish as there are so many of them out there it's easy to get confused. I'd like to do it right the first time and have it last many years without having to worry about it again.

Thanks for any help!

[scott vroom]

Bill, is that bench made from veneered plywood or solid wood? If ply, you've got to be very careful not sand through what is likely a very thin top layer.

As for a finish, my preference would a professional quality water based polyurethane, such as General Finishes Enduro Clear Poly. It's pretty tough stuff. Others will have different suggestions . Enduro is designed to be sprayed but I've brushed it on with good results..it lays down very well.

[John TenEyck]

I agree with Scott, if that is veneered plywood you would be better off using a chemical stripper to remove the old finish. A light sanding with 220 or 320 grit should be all you need after that. I also think GF's Enduro Clear Poly would be a good choice. It has a dual UV stabilizer package in it that will prevent both the finish and underlying wood from aging for many years. It goes on water clear, so if you want a little color you could either add a few drops of whatever Transtint dye you want directly to the finish, or put a coat of dewaxed shellac on the wood first, in your flavor of choice. Transtint Honey Amber in Sealcoat shellac would probably give you something close to the color you have now.

John

[Bill Rodgers]

It's veneered plywood so yes I have to be very careful sanding. I plan on chemically removing the old finish and then sanding it very lightly.

I plan on brushing on the finish as I do not have a sprayer. I don't know what the color of the wood will be after sanding but as you can see it has a yellowish hue to match the rest of the window. I've never used transtint dye or dewaxed shellac. I would put the dye directly into the the poly then apply? What would the purpose of the dewaxed shellac be? Could I try just a regular natural color wood stain too?

What advantage does the water based GF Enduro Clear Poly have over an oil based? Just wondering is all as I have a lot to learn I know.

Thanks for the help guys!! It's very much appreciated.

[John TenEyck]

You can put Transtint in both shellac and water based products. If you can't spray I suggest you forget using shellac and either put the Transtint in the GF Enduro Clear Poly or use an oil based varnish. You can't put Transtint in that, but it will have a naturally amber tone. Of course you could use a wood stain first, but what you have now likely didn't have one. Doesn't mean you can't use one now though.

The advantage of Enduro Clear Poly over an oil based varnish is that it doesn't smell, dries very quickly, and won't age near as much over time.

John

[Bill Rodgers]

John - Thank you for the information. I still like the idea of the Enduro Clear Poly but what would you recommend for an oil based varnish product? Is a varnish much different than a poly or are they the same thing? And when you say an oil based varnish won't age as much over time, do you mean just color aging or becoming less of a sealer and actually cracking or something like that? What would make a "harder" finish water based or oil based? Thanks again for the help!!

[John TenEyck]

John - Thank you for the information. I still like the idea of the Enduro Clear Poly but what would you recommend for an oil based varnish product? Is a varnish much different than a poly or are they the same thing? And when you say an oil based varnish won't age as much over time, do you mean just color aging or becoming less of a sealer and actually cracking or something like that? What would make a "harder" finish water based or oil based? Thanks again for the help!!

Varnish is a generic term and traditionally meant referred to an oil and resin that were cooked together to yield an oil based film forming finish. There are phenolic varnishes (Waterlox), alkyd (P&L 38), polyurethane varnishes, and perhaps others. I actually said that Enduro Clear Poly won't age as much as an oil based one, not the other way around. The reason for that is Enduro Clear Poly has UV stabilizers in it. The only oil based varnishes with UV stabilizers, that I'm aware of, are the exterior grade ones like Epifanes. I like Epifanes a lot - but only for exterior applications. It's a royal pain to apply, taking 7 coats, and ends up rather thick which is not something I want for interior applications. It's also rather soft, as are all exterior varnishes in order to accommodate seasonal expansion/contraction w/o cracking. Harder? Enduro Clear Poly is certainly harder than the exterior oil based ones. Compared to the interior oil based varnishes? I'm not sure, but I doubt it's softer.

If you want to use a solvent based varnish I would consider GF's Arm-R-Seal. It's a urethane enhanced wiping varnish and is very easy to apply with a blue shop towel, although some people use a foam brush. It is much lighter in color than Waterlox.

Keep in mind that hardness is not always the answer. Floor finishes are usually polyurethane based and one of the great attributes of polyurethane is that it's soft and, therefore, scratch resistant.

Still confused? I don't think you can go wrong with the Enduro Clear Poly, Arm-R-Seal, or your favorite oil based polyurethane floor varnish.


John

[Bill Rodgers]

John - Thanks for the information, you are definitely helping me better understand all this stuff.

Without the UV stabilizers in it, how will the Arm-R-Seal show its age more overtime when compared to the Enduro Clear Poly? Will it just be a slight yellowing of color? I like the idea of the crystal clear Enduro Clear Poly but have never used a water based poly. If a water based poly is just as hard as an oil based one, that's a big plus in my book. And like an oil based one, is the "gloss" finish the most durable?

Thanks again.

[John TenEyck]

Sheen has no influence on durability as far as I can tell. Gloss or flat, doesn't matter, it's the same resin and, therefore, the same durability. Arm-R-Seal has a slightly amber hue to it straight out of the can; Enduro Clear Poly is water clear. Arm-R-Seal will age more over time but how much is hard to say. But that doesn't mean it will fail - ie crack, peal, etc. And have no fear of Enduro Clear Poly. It goes on easily with a foam brush.

As I said. Enduro Clear Poly, Arm-R-Seal, your favorite oil based poly floor varnish - all will do a good job.

John

[M Toupin]

Tile

Water proof, sun proof, pet proof and you never worry about refinishing again.

f22704875.jpg

Mike

[Bill Rodgers]

John - Thank you for the very helpful words of advice! You've definitely helped me better educate myself on finishes and what I need to look for. I'm going to get stated on the project here this weekend.

MT - Your tile looks very nice but the other half has her mind set on the wood. Not a battle I'm going to pick today but thanks for sharing and it looks very nice.

[Bill Rodgers]

John - As far as the GF Enduro Clear Poly, you said it dries very fast. Does it still allow for adequate time to apply and smooth with a foam brush or does it start setting up and get tacky really quickly? I am very familiar with brush applying normal oil based poly so that is what I would be comparing it to. Thanks!

[Frank Ranalli]

Bill, If you did in deed start your project this past weekend, my suggestion might be too late. I have the same problem / issue with my son's bay window and what I am going to do is remove the ply and flip it over and using the opposite side since the dimensions are the same. I plan on sanding lightly with 220, stain it and use Arm-R-Seal to finish.

Of course, if your dimensions don't match (side to side, angles, etc.) then forget about flipping the piece.

[Bill Rodgers]

Maybe a silly questions but would there be any benefit to applying a layer or 2 of GF Enduro Clear Poly over a few layers of GF Arm-R-Seal?

Reason I'm asking is that the GF Enduro Clear Poly has UV inhibitors in it. Would that help further protect the overall finish from adverse UV effects?

Thanks.

[John TenEyck]

I've never done something as large as a table top with Clear Poly, but I have done some things with several square feet with a foam brush and they came out fine with no brush lap marks. But it's not like OB poly; it's more like brushing shellac. You flow it on, smooth it out, and move on. You can't keep going back over it. Temp. and RH make a big difference, too. Hot and dry really limits your working time. 70F and 50% RH is great.

I would not put Arm-R-Seal under Clear Poly. There's more potential for problems than positives. If you want to add some color then put some Transtint dye in the first couple of coats of Clear Poly. If you do decide to start with Arm-R-Seal, then I strongly encourage you to let it cure for several days and then apply a sealer of dewaxed shellac over it before putting on the Clear Poly. You could use rattle can shellac for that, as brushing shellac is a recipe for frustration unless you have a lot of experience doing it.

John